Time to Give Your Input on Santiago Truck Trail / STT

Discussion in 'Trail Advocacy' started by mtnbikej, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS
    So a friend and I were talking recently and he mentioned the Jeeps up on STT while riding to Old Camp on a Saturday morning.

    We all know this is becoming a bigger and bigger problem with because of access from Cadillac Trail from Trabuco Canyon.

    With the speed in which the fire burning up in Idyllwild exploded, it got us thinking how quickly this could happen on our local mtn. Hot temps, super dry brush....all it would take is a hot exhaust pipe, muffler or catalytic converter.....and poof. Not to mention the number of fire pits an fire rings that are popping up along the route.

    The big problem is that the Cleveland National Forest does not control the land that Cadillac is on. Nor does it control the land at the very top of Cadillac.

    Screenshot (94).png

    However we know that the 4x4's are going well into the CNF boundry. We all know about the Mercedes and the Jeep that were stuck up there and eventually went over the side. We also know that they made it up to the clearing above Old Camp.....what was once a great ribbon of singletrack is now a trashed fireroad. Last year a the Jeep that first cleared it's way to the top of Old Camp, got stuck on the side road that follows the power lines above Old Camp.

    IMG_2872.JPG

    In the 20 years I have been riding STT....motor vehicles have been prohibited.

    While there is nothing that the CNF can do on the private land on Cadillac and at the top....they should be able to shrink down the area at their boundry line....hopefully making it less appealing.

    I know a few of us have expressed this to people at the CNF.....but our single voices have been ignored.

    What am I asking?

    dvance@fs.fed.us
    dclark@fs.fed.us

    Send emails to these people at the CNF.....Darrel Vance is the District Manager for our area.

    Let them know that they can't just ignore this problem. Let them know that the problem needs to be solved before something happens....not after. Include pictures if you have them.

    Hopefully the voice of many will make more of an impact.

    It doesn't matter if you ride out there or not....if you are local or not. Please inundate them with requests.

    Thanks all.
     
    H2oChick, bvader, Danmtchl and 11 others like this.
  2. evdog

    evdog Well-Known Member

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    I always wondered if we couldn't just find a spot where there was a vertical wall on one side of the trail and dig out the bench on the downhill side to half the width of a vehicle so that it would be impossible for a vehicle to pass.

    This idea was more intended for Anderson Truck Trail down here but would work at a place like STT too. We had been having similar 4x4 incursions at ATT that had turned singletrack into road, with similar result of 3-4 vehicles rolled over the edge. Fortunately the tribe clamped down on access from the top so that is no longer an issue. And it is now only accessible from the bottom - no more shuttling.
     
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  3. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS
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  4. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot Well-Known Member

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    Unfortunately , just southeast of the ridge that is burning is a trail-less side canyon which has the largest grove of big-cone Douglas firs in the SA’s, which I’m sure is a remnant population from the geologically recent cooler period with little current recruitment (seedlings surviving to maturity). So if that burns...very long recovery of the forest if at all. Same may happen to the ponderosa/Coulter pine forest around Mountain Center that just burned.

    Edit: meant to put this in the fire thread.
     
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  5. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    There have been at least a couple attempts to close Cadillac manually, and they each worked for awhile. One was a big ditch and the other was a landslide. Also, a gate was reportedly built not long ago, but it didn't stop the off-roaders. The ditch where the Mercedes was stuck (on the way to the Luge) worked fairly well, but that driver still got past it and did some damage.

    I've asked for years for this road to be shut down before someone causes a fire or gets killed, and vehicles aren't allowed to wreck legal single track . I agree with @mtnbikej that more people need to be heard. Your emails would be greatly appreciated!
     
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  6. Faust29

    Faust29 iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve
    Current Bike:
    Chameleon & Highball C
    There is a current thread on the Holy Jim Fire Department page on Facebook about the new camera that J and I saw yesterday...
     
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  7. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    It'd be cool to point a hidden camera at that one and get footage of someone pulling it out! Of course, they'll probably post about it anyway.
     
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  8. Faust29

    Faust29 iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve
    Current Bike:
    Chameleon & Highball C
    It's a public page. You should be able to read everything posted without a Facebook account.
     
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  9. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    Got it. Apparently put up by the property owner? Not sure I get the point. Are they planning to hire a guard to sit at the bottom and turn people away?
     
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  10. Faust29

    Faust29 iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve
    Current Bike:
    Chameleon & Highball C
    I'd bet on one of the Bro Dozers with a push bumper... Too much work to get out of the truck.
     
  11. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot Well-Known Member

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    This may be unpopular, but im wondering if maybe during santa ana wind events or extreme heat waves the parks and national forests should just be closed. To reduce the chance of accidental, and intentional arson.
     
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  12. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    '15 Intense Tracer 275c DVOish
    Not a bad idea. A sad truth.
     
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  13. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Addict

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    I get where you're coming from, but I couldn't agree. It would be another case of punishing everyone for the misdeeds of a few. I would much prefer to concentrate on finding and prosecuting the responsible parties.

    We've also learned that total suppression is actually worse in the long run.
     
  14. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot Well-Known Member

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    Good luck with that. And the fire would have already happened.
     
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  15. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    I'm for expedited suppression, if warranted. Get planes in the air and on the fire before it gets too big to manage. Pre-authorization and crews on standby during high fire danger periods.

    And yes, sad as it is, these areas need to burn once in awhile. Here's a study that may or may not work in the Cleveland, but since we're practically doing it anyway..
    http://news.berkeley.edu/2016/10/24...vs-suppression-benefits-forest-and-watershed/
     
  16. Faust29

    Faust29 iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve
    Current Bike:
    Chameleon & Highball C
    And... It's not like the forest service hasn't been working on clearing some of the fuel up there. They've been pretty proactive lately, it seems. Sadly, they just hadn't made it that far across the mountain range yet.
     
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  17. Rumpled

    Rumpled Well-Known Member

    Location:
    OC
    Name:
    Jim Martin
    Current Bike:
    2003 Giant Rainier
    Wasn't it just a few months ago that someone wheelin' did die up there?
    You think that might get something going.
     
  18. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Addict

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    Close it, and you'll still have knuckleheads in there ignoring the closure. Fires will still happen.
     
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  19. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot Well-Known Member

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    True.. I wasnt really serious. Just frustrated.
     
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  20. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS
    I sent my email......

    Who else?
     
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  21. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Addict

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    I'm thoughtfully composing. I need to think this through. No, really - I've gone through like 5 drafts so far.
     
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  22. Faust29

    Faust29 iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve
    Current Bike:
    Chameleon & Highball C
    I suppose I can send an email...

    I'll keep my eyes open for headlights, and snap a few pics when I can...
     
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  23. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS
    Pics or no pics.....reports of use are just as important.

    Remember, more complaints are harder to ignore than just 1.
     
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  24. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Addict

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    That's kinda what I'm up against...I want to assist, but I have no first-hand knowledge and can't see it from my window. I can relate anecdotal stories, that I've seen pictures of cars & jeeps over the side (I've never actually seen them myself), or their effects on the trail, but it takes some wordsmithing to make it relevant. Remember, I've only ridden STT past the Luge once. But I'm workin' on it.
     
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  25. Faust29

    Faust29 iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve
    Current Bike:
    Chameleon & Highball C
    But you did ride the section of STT between Cadillac and Old Camp that was torn up by the Jeeps. T'aint no little single track anymore...
     
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  26. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS
    You have seen a trail that used to be a ribbon of singletrack, bushwhacked by 4x4's into a destroyed road. My pic above is a great illustration of what it looks like.

    Plus it is a single road not wide enough for 2 way traffic:

    IMG_20180701_111826018.jpg
     
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  27. Danimal

    Danimal Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Mission Viejo
    Name:
    Dan
    Current Bike:
    Rocky Mountain Altitude
    I'm be sending my email. What was a ribbon of single track is now a road. An area that had no trail a few years ago is now a dirt road to the top of a small hill. I saw the damage. Was obvious they ripped out a lot of bushes with the winch to make room to drive.
    Not to mention one area that was a slightly wider section is now plenty wide enough for a complete U turn.
    So yes I'll be emailing.

    Check out you tube, so many vids of 4x4s doing damage to otherwise fairly pristine areas.

    However, they need somewhere to go. And the 4x4s don't have in OC that I'm aware of.
     
  28. H2oChick

    H2oChick Well-Known Member

    Name:
    K-Oss
    When the ^^ above photo was taken I called the OC Sheriff who immediately pawned it off to CHP. They understood it was illegal and they had to trespass on private property to get to the trail but they are not staffed to patrol or enforce.
    I have sent a letter to the local OC newspaper (Sentry) to bring it to their attention; also Trabuco Ranger Station.
     
  29. Faust29

    Faust29 iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve
    Current Bike:
    Chameleon & Highball C
    Who knows... But they are at least thinking about it. That's a good first step. One thing with vehicle enforcement, though, is having a witness. A cop can't write a ticket for things he doesn't see... Ever. With a camera, you now have a witness.

    My question would be: How effective is that going to be at night?
     
  30. Ebruner

    Ebruner Member

    Name:
    Erik Bruner
    Current Bike:
    SC Hightower, Kona Hei Hei
    emails sent.
     
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