Strava Global Heatlamp and Illegal Trails

So I was checking out my favorite illegal trails guide (cough Strava Heatlamp cough) and was surprised to hear that it is causing issues with trail access because people are using it to record their illegal rides, and then are bragging about their rides online. Guess there are fools born every minute. Why is it so hard to be smart?

 

Umm...yea.

 

Strava or not, many riders act like a trail is open unless there is a ranger or LEO is in their face writing them a ticket. They will ride it without second thought or any semblance of discretion. Taking your massive group ride down that trail...GREAT IDEA!!!

Posting about such rides online doesn't help either. But it burns me up more that we have a company like Strava profiting off its contribution to this problem. We really are our own worst enemy.

 

Common sense is an uncommon virtue.

 

It's not too hard to use fight club rules.

I admit that I've been loose about it in the past, so I really don't have a good position from which to criticize.

 

Strava doesn't poach trails. They provide a service. It's the rider's responsibility to stay out of closed areas.

When individuals are held responsible for their actions instead of blaming the faceless, big bad corporation, then such poaching / bad things will happen less often.

Or sanity will break out and the areas will be opened...Naah, never happen.

 

Hear, hear!

 

People are prone to destroy the things they love (and thus, things I love) due to an intense desire for validation and braggadocio. How can someone think that posting his illegal ride on STRAVA is going to turn out well?

 

I think this discussion is a good one. I'm not sure we want to post up locations and pics even here to offer more info on such locations.

STRAVA is nothing more than a tool. It's. The perpetrators that use the tool that make the data bad. Just a suggestion but it may be wise to pull the heatmap and continue the discussion. It certainly is a worthy one.

 

I am going to push on that idea, since it's often thrown around on this and other sites.

To say STRAVA is merely a tool sort of minimizes or ignores the human condition and the very thing that motivates and drives people.

STRAVA is an intoxicant. Some of us - most on this site - can use it wisely to enhance our experiences and maybe even better our lives. Others alter their behavior when under its influence, and seek the rush of social acceptance and validation that the tool provides.

Because of its intoxicating qualities, I must steer clear. Much as an alcoholic needs to steer clear of alcohol.

Respectfully submitted. Not trying to turn this into yet another STRAVA yay or nay thread. I am all for responsible use of the awesome tool. And using STRAVA to mark your illegal rides is an irresponsible use of the tool.

 

Land managers are mostly aware of illegal trails, use of Strava or not. Brother does it for a living. As I have mentioned before if the vegetation isn't overtaking the trail it's probably being used. They don't have the man power to slap hands. As with other petty crimes, they do operations every once in awhile to let people know they are watching. But in general can do very little about illegal trail use.

 

I hear you and totally respect that...
But the discussion you just opened reflects back on every aspect of what our modern day society battles over, and that simply comes down to self control and accountability.

There are those (I am not one of them) that believe that access to some tools is wrong. But then, we justify and rationalize what fits into our personal perspective.
There are some that believe that Guns should not be available to the public because guns kill. Wrong. Guns do not kill... people kill. If we were to continue that philosophy then we need to ban cars, knives, sharpened sticks, toasters thrown in bathtubs, swimming pools, and even vending machines to name a few. All of these items have killed others. Yet we don't seem to have an issue with alcohol and now the legalization of marijuana. Those things kill people too, right?
I have said this before, personally I believe I should have every right to own a rocket launcher, I should have the right, but I should also be smart enough not to use it. I own lots of guns, never had any of them revolt, go on a rampage, none of my guns have ever killed anyone... ever.

So when it comes to STRAVA, it's just a tool. I don't need it to push me to ride faster, I already do that. I did that on Saturday, heck, I did that yesterday while riding with others. Should we ban... others?
Something this world is doing and I am getting sick and tired of it is not holding "people" accountable. Bluntly, that's bullshit. yeah, Mikie said bullshit... We want to blame a tool, an item, a scenario. it's time we get back to blaming people for their actions, hold them accountable. That's the only animate option to good and bad decisions.

In regards to you @herzalot , good on you for recognizing the danger and steering clear. In my opinion, you have made good choices and I commend you. People who choose to ride over their heads to make a KOM, or ride illegal trails and post them (I am guilty of this), there are the possibility of consequences if you make stupid decisions, but I will never blame the tool, because then you might as well blame the bike, hey, let's ban bikes because bikes can kill... See my point?

 

If you poach a trail and don't record it on Strava or GoPro.....did you really poach?

Poaching happens....whether we like it or not. We have all done it....whether we know it or not.

Initially land managers may not know about said trails....they generally find them pretty quick. They may not act on it immediately, but eventually they will.

As others have said Strava/Youtube/etc. are all just tools....they cannot be held responsible for the content.

In today's "instant gratification" fight club rules don't really apply. Back in the day...you know, when all we had were maps and no interweb....it was much easier to keep secret ride spots secret, but there were also a lot less riders out there.

 

Well, my STRAVA is pretty boring with a bunch of slow times on legal trails at Oaks 90% of the time. The other 10% is on trails in the Santa Anas, Big Bear, Mammoth, San Gabs, etc. I guess I am content with what is on the maps but can't say I've never ventured into uncharted territory.

 

The way in which Strava operates is also harmful. Strava has been approached by bike advocacy groups and land managers about setting up a mechanism for reporting of segments on illegal trails so these can be removed, but they refused to do so. I'm not a strava user but far as I know you can only report segments for being unsafe. All they would need is a new category to report, and then act on it. A responsible company should do, but Strava won't. Not only does this guide more riders to illegal trails who may not have found them otherwise, but it also gives land managers data on usage of those trails which does not help us either. My other beef with Strava (aside from what Herzalot mentions above) is that most rides automatically get added to the heat map by default even if your profile or ride is set to private. You have to change a setting for your rides to not be added. Of course most users have no clue about this, and even if they are well meaning and set rides to private they still contribute to the heat map. Again Strava could easily change this, but don't. In summary, Strava can go suck a bag of dicks.

 

But it goes back to taking responsibility for what you do. Just cause you don't record or post it....poaching/illegal trails doesn't make it right. No different than being caught on the cameras that are set up in some trail networks.

 

Reminded me of this... near the bottom of Emerald Canyon (in Laguna Coast) there is a game trail/motion camera set up at the bottom of a most definitely illegal trail. I rode by it one weekend and it was perfectly fine and intact. The next weekend when I rode by it, it was all busted up and broken. Why the hell would someone do that? Do they need to ride the illegal trail that bad? It is Sh!t like this that is ten times worse than the actual poaching of an illegal trail. I was disgusted when I saw the camera all broken up. The only thing worse than vandals are thieves. But, they fall into the same category as douchebags!

 

I still like "Chicken Nuggets" for our club name.

 

So are the people using it! Ride Free my friends!

Besides, Strava is just a way the government keeps tabs on all y'all....

Just my 6 cents....

 

More of a colorful entertainment piece then valuable content, but, I've grown to anticipate that from the formerly known as Chris P Bacon....

 

Of all the folks I would love to agree with, on this subject just respectfully don't. Ain't it great to discuss?
STRAVA provides a service to record the activities of mountain bikers. Membership is free. There would not be recorded poaching if people didn't poach. If the authorities want to crack down on poaching... Use STRAVA as part of their evidence. Don't break the law and there is no issue.

 

That is asking a lot, Mikie!

 

No doubt my brother, no doubt. But like everything in this country, we make more rules on top of previous rules.
If we truly wanted to crack down on illegal trail use, the County should impose a significant fine and confiscation of the bike and potential jail time for first time offenders, AND THEN... actually excersizing the ordinance. That certainly would stop me.

The offender is not STRAVA, the offender is the poacher. STRAVA is a business trying to stay in business, not in the business of upholding the law. Law enforcement and the judicial system are responsible for that. They can blame that they don't have the manpower or the budget but that is not STRAVA's problem.

STRAVA supplies everything Law Enforcement needs to track and catch poachers. Days, Times, Trails. Post signs at the trailhead, At peak poaching hours fly a drone and capture video of the perpetrators and meet them at the bottom of the trail. Caught red handed, video as evidence. Do that seven times and the news will travel fast. Remember the military bike confiscation a few months ago down near SAN Diego?

 

I'm riding battery free in twenty-seventeen.

 

I am not advocating catching poachers. There is an unspoken balance regarding the "illegal" trails in and around my home town. Basically, it's "don't ask, don't tell," fight club or "don't flaunt what you're doing or we will have to do something about it."

There's a 30 year history here of great riders building, riding and maintaining off-menu trails on public lands, taking advantage of the confusing layers of authority in the area, and the mutual respect between the merry band of hardcore riders and the rangers. However, "don't ask, don't tell" or "fight club" rules get blown out of the water when there's public data that can be used by other user groups who want those pesky two-wheeled renegades and their fancy toys outlawed for good and their horribly offensive trails chained off and re-vegetated.

So put the egos aside boys and turn off your data capturing devices while riding the tastier selections in the area.

 

I have no value on this topic.

 

Everyone has value on every topic. We live in the age of the participation medal.

 

Actually... Isn't Strava's main demographic the chai latte sipping roadie? We're just an afterthought. It may seem like we're the dominant Strava species at times in SoCal, but I don't think that's the case nation wide or world wide. If that statement is true, then the entire trail poaching argument is just too small for the company to bother one way or the other...

 

Them, and the hardcore runner, kayaker, Mt Everest-defeating hiker...

It's anyone who wants to keep track of what they do. Some abuse it - remember the spate of segments being reported as dangerous, making leader boards go away?

If you look at just the number of participants in a Strava monthly merit badge challenge, world wide, it's amazing.

 

I love ya, Mikie, but:
Not sure if that sounds more like a quote from "1984" or a GDR/Stasi informational brochure. Can't wait until one of the most liberating of all modern devices, the automobile, becomes "self-driving" and we can only go where we're allowed and when we're allowed to go there. Google, Facebook, Strava, yada yada, yada. Maybe someday an EMP attack will be the only chance for future humans to be unmonitored and self-determinate. Viva la progression!

Share away, brothers and sisters. It's only data.