Pandora's box is opening. E-bikes

Discussion in 'Trail Advocacy' started by CarlS, Dec 16, 2015.

  1. CarlS

    CarlS Member

    Location:
    Temecula, CA
    Name:
    Carl
    Current Bike:
    Walmart $50 special
    Soooo.... who is going to police the ebikes? "excuse me, I need to inspect that ebike you are riding and make sure it falls within the allowable classification for this trail." HAHA yea right. like that is going to happen. And even if they did enforce it, whats the worst they would dish out for riding class 3 ebike? a small fine maybe?
    o_O

    >
    New California Legislation will allow e-Bikes on Non-Motorized Trails

    Starting January 1, California is going to be the testing ground of the first-of-its-kind e-bike legislation (California Assembly Bill 1096). While most mountain bikers are supportive of e-bikes on roads, allowing e-mountain bikes on non-motorized trails is another story—and this law allows electric mountain bikes on non-motorized trails.

    Advocates have long defined mountain biking as being a non-motorized, human-powered form of recreation, and much of our advocacy with land management agencies has been based upon this. Many are concerned that there will be a backlash against mountain biking if the definition of mountain biking is widened to include mountain bikes with battery-powered motors.

    Please spread the word that AB 1096, effective January 1st, specifically allows Class 1 and Class 2 e-bikes on all State-owned hiking, equestrian, and recreational trails unless the governing agency specifically prohibits them. Class 3 e-bikes would only be allowed if the governing agency approves them.

    For those not familiar with the new classes, Class 1 and 2 e-bikes are sub-750 watt electric bikes that only provide power at speeds of 20 mph or less. Class 1 e-bikes need to be pedaled in order to receive power while Class 2 e-bikes have a grip twist or thumb throttle and do not need to be pedaled. Class 3 electric motored bikes may go up to 28 mph until the power is cut off – basically an electric moped. As mentioned above, the new legislation will allow Class 1 and 2 e-bikes on trails unless specifically posted closed.

    Read the Bill, AB 1096

    We urge everyone to read the bill carefully:
    http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml…
     
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  2. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Lebec, California
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower/Yeti 5C
    I choose currently to be speechless. All know my position on motorized vehicles on non motorized trails...
     
  3. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    While I'm not a fan of motorized bikes on trails, stop a moment and replace "Class X E-bike on trails" in the above article with "mountain bike in designated wilderness" and we're perilously close to sounding like a bunch of Marin County Sierra Clubbers who want it all to ourselves. No way we're going to allow XX to use our space.

    Let's think about another way to approach it. Safety issue would probably fly farther.
     
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  4. rossage

    rossage iMTB Addict

    Location:
    East Sacramento
    Name:
    Ross Lawson
    Current Bike:
    Highball
    The safety issue is that someone is going to get in way over their head on a trail due to being able to get out there artificially. They will not have the ability to deal with a 50 lb deadweight e-bicycle and the rider and the bicycle will become the issue.
    I have already seen an obese man at the saddle on Brown Mtn, smoking a cigarette, stating, "I shouldn't even be here without this bike."
    I think the lack of response from some other well-known trail user groups speaks volumes. With motors in the mix, we can all get banned.
    E-bikes belong with other motorized trail users.
     
  5. ridinrox

    ridinrox Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Murrieta
    Name:
    Roxanne
    Current Bike:
    '16 Giant Trance Advance
    This is 'Merica - everyone is entitled dammitt!!!!! :rolleyes:
     
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  6. rossage

    rossage iMTB Addict

    Location:
    East Sacramento
    Name:
    Ross Lawson
    Current Bike:
    Highball
    Quit bullying me!!!

    Mikie!!! Where is our safe spot? I am being harrassed and I need comfort.
     
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  7. UPSed

    UPSed iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Simi Valley
    Name:
    Edward Bottorff
    Current Bike:
    Niner Jet 9 RDO Plus
    Cherish your KOM's! At least on the climbs. :cry:
     
  8. ridinrox

    ridinrox Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Murrieta
    Name:
    Roxanne
    Current Bike:
    '16 Giant Trance Advance
    I'm trying to get banned....:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:whistling:
     
  9. dstepper

    dstepper Member

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Dean Stepper
    Current Bike:
    2014 Turner Czar
    I think we should deny obese men that smoke the right to enjoy the outdoors on their ebikes.

    If it takes help to get him up the hill then so be it. Shall we also deny handicapped and those with medical conditions the right to e-bike in the dirt. I say open more trails, disperse the added traffic. To me the strava holes are much more of a problem.

    Dean
     
  10. evdog

    evdog Well-Known Member

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    I am curious why we are only hearing about this now, after the fact?
     
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  11. MCB2K

    MCB2K Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Castle Rock, CO
    Name:
    Brian Kiggins
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Tallboy LTc
    California... the place where absolutely nothing makes sense.

    (no offense, Colorado is trying to be just like California)
     
  12. Sasquatch9billion

    Sasquatch9billion Well-Known Member

    Name:
    trinidad j. mendez
    I say we just do what territorial surfers do. You see an E-bike at the trail head, clip the guy's throttle cable and tell 'em to go home and get a real bike. You see them on the trail, you dole out some TRAIL JUSTICE.
    Three-Ninjas_610.jpg
    (Above suggestion intended for entertainment purposes only.)
     
  13. MCB2K

    MCB2K Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Castle Rock, CO
    Name:
    Brian Kiggins
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Tallboy LTc
    Next year:

    Red Bull E-Bike Rampage
    Come see people who have no business leaving their couch launch 90 foot drops, clear 70 foot chasms and crash like nobody's business.
     
  14. rossage

    rossage iMTB Addict

    Location:
    East Sacramento
    Name:
    Ross Lawson
    Current Bike:
    Highball
     
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  15. rossage

    rossage iMTB Addict

    Location:
    East Sacramento
    Name:
    Ross Lawson
    Current Bike:
    Highball
    Access for ALL trail users!

     
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  16. Danmtchl

    Danmtchl Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bakersfield
    Name:
    Dan
    Current Bike:
    2015 Devinci Troy Carbon 27.5
    I have known this for a while. We sell E bikes mainly for commuters, but we have a customer who bought a moutain bike version. He is all to gung ho to get on the trails and collecting KOM's.
     
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  17. evdog

    evdog Well-Known Member

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    You should have kicked him hard in the balls before he left the shop. The implications for strava-tards will be highly amusing. The rest of the negative fall out will not be as fun for us.

    Sorry Dean I am with Rossage. e-bikes need to stick to motorized trails. If you can't make it up the hill under your own power then IMO it was not meant to be.
     
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  18. Danmtchl

    Danmtchl Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Bakersfield
    Name:
    Dan
    Current Bike:
    2015 Devinci Troy Carbon 27.5
    He really does need a swift kick in the balls. But where I ride you have to compete with douchebag dirtbikes who are not supposed to be there in the first place. So an E bike is not that big of a deal. Its the point that since he can ride out there now he will. I can't wait to see him breakdown out there and have to push that 50 pound bike around.
     
  19. Faust29

    Faust29 iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve
    Current Bike:
    Chameleon & Highball C
    There was a study I read awhile back that said, basically, that former obese people are a lot less tolerant towards the overweight than anyone else... I fit in that category! I really have a hard time with taking the easy way out, without acquiring the knowledge and incremental gains in fitness to go out there under your own power. Three and a half years from 3 mile rides to where I am now. It ain't that hard! Step away from the damn Doritos!

    But, in our wonderfully non-offensive society, obesity can be a disabling condition...

     
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  20. ridinrox

    ridinrox Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Murrieta
    Name:
    Roxanne
    Current Bike:
    '16 Giant Trance Advance
    Coming from the other side of the coin: Thin people are judged just as much as overweight people.

    Bottom line: I have no problem w people doing w their lives as they wish (as long as you don't hurt anyone else). If people hate exercise but want to get outside, more power to em (see what I did there??...lol). Just as that yahoo hiker did to get in shape but went about it the wrong way.

    There will always be a**holes - rise above it, smile and wish them a good day. :thumbsup:
     
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  21. StrandLeper

    StrandLeper Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Timothy M. Ryan
    Current Bike:
    SC Bronson 1x/Pivot 429 1x xtr
    Some e-bikes are VERY heavy. They are no where near as "controllable" as a mountain bike. People are going to take them places that are very very far outside of their comfort zones both regarding fitness and bike handling. I love the trails. I love the ethos of riding trails. I love people who ride trails. I love running the trails. I love walking the trails. The deep stuff that I like to ride is empty because it takes a few levels of fitness and skill to get there. The deep stuff is where people can get into trouble. This is a toxic mix. People will get hurt, and the general public and elected officials will act with their usual arbitrariness. (i just made up a word!)

    I hate to say it, but I might be a d*ck on the trail if I see someone on a 50 pound e-bike way out deep who looks like they do not have the skills to safely use the trails with others. Let me correct that. I will be a d*ck on the trail if someone on a 50 pound e-bike way out deep who looks like he/she does not have the skills to safely use the trails with others does not use proper etiquette. A real d*ck.

    Strand, out.
     
  22. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    Alternatively, we as a society take a step forward in maturity, legalize adulthood, and let people make their choices. The flip side of that is they also get to deal with the consequences of those choices...or fail to deal with them and are removed from the picture.

    Darwin really was right in many respects.
     
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  23. StrandLeper

    StrandLeper Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Timothy M. Ryan
    Current Bike:
    SC Bronson 1x/Pivot 429 1x xtr
    Scissors... unfortunately.... the tort system and PI lawyers... :) (I am NOT a PI attorney)
     
  24. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    Yup. I know the difference between philosophy and reality.

    But a man can dream...
     
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  25. Oaken

    Oaken Member

    Location:
    OC
    Name:
    CeeJay
    they are NOT e-bikes! They are electric motorcycles.
     
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  26. StrandLeper

    StrandLeper Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Timothy M. Ryan
    Current Bike:
    SC Bronson 1x/Pivot 429 1x xtr
    What are these 50 pound monster bikes going to do to the trails themselves???????????????
     
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  27. StrandLeper

    StrandLeper Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Timothy M. Ryan
    Current Bike:
    SC Bronson 1x/Pivot 429 1x xtr
    If I see someone on a 50 pound monster bike out on a hero dirt day....
     
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  28. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Lebec, California
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower/Yeti 5C
    Okay...
    I'm ready.
    I once knew an elderly man who complained about a stop sign that had recently been placed at an old intersection.
    "That intersection hadn't needed a stop sign for years! Why now!" He said.
    "I ain't gonna stop at that damn stop sign, been driving through that intersection long before you were crawling, boy!"
    He died...
    True story.

    It's amazing how we erect laws and then break them. California is great at doing that. We bend, we interpret, we rationalize...
    I apologize in advance for stepping on any toes, but an EBike is a motorized vehicle. It's illegal to ride and drive a motorized vehicle on non motorized trails. If your fat, lose weight, so you can pedal a bike on non motorized trails. I did. My love for cycling overtook my desire to eat :poop:(yeah This subject gets me going). It doesn't give a person the right to break the law. Ebike's are not a crutch, they are breaking the law.

    It also convolutes our trail advocacy (thus why it was rightly posted here). We are putting our trail rights now in the hands of an added group who will no doubt blur the distinction. Someone who does not belong where we go will get hurt, then sue... Closing that trail, that state park , that trail network.

    It's begging for trouble. Having the "to each his own" theory sounds great until you discover those of much lower character. I sincerely believe EBike enthusiasts will not have the fortitude that a seasoned mountain biker will have from building the ability to ride where we ride, and jeopardize our trail position for the worse amongst other trail users.

    I'm a very polite trail user, but I have no problem protecting our turf, while out on the trail. You will see a different side of me when confronted by an EBike abuser, and that is defined by motorized on non motorized trails that I hold very dear.

    Ebike's beware...
     
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  29. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Lebec, California
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower/Yeti 5C
    I would love for this to work less sidline consequences. But unfortunely it does not in all cases.

    Currently, there is a lawsuit in relations to Tapia.

    Some dude on a scooter crashed on the fire road that leads to the trails of Tapia. That loser is now sueing for his significant injuries. Now due to a lengthy court case, the road is closed to mountain bikers I assume partially due to an individual getting injured on a two wheeled vehicle.


    The California Aqueduct was closed years ago to cyclist due to a significant injury and the lawsuit by an inexperienced dude on a bicycle paralyzed from the neck down. He sued the State and won ruining hundreds of miles of safe pavement for cyclist due to it's permanent closure to bikes. We paid millions of dollars through taxes for that Aqueduct with the promise from the State for that recreational attribute.

    Gone!

    So... Darwinisim does affect others.
     
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  30. Faust29

    Faust29 iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve
    Current Bike:
    Chameleon & Highball C
    Yep... Scissors mentions the safety aspect above, but we will be lumped in with the e-bikes, just because we are on wheels also. Then, the headline will contain a nice statistic about the number of airlifts for all 2-wheeled users and the cost involved... Joe Recliner will vote with Biff from the Sierra Club and we'll be screwed.