Discussion with Southern California Bicyclist.... Subject: E-Bikes

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Mikie, Jun 10, 2016.



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  1. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    North East Canada? , California
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9, Santa Cruz Hightower
    This may get lengthy...
    As you may recall
    @Andy posted a link to Southern California Bicyclist who wrote an article regarding an E-Mountain Bike race over on the post http://www.imtbtrails.com/forum/threads/e-mtn-bikes-r-us-rock-n-road-boycott.4477/page-6#post-54871.

    I went to the article, read it, and then chose to contact them via their "contact page" and wrote a blurb expressing my dissapointment that they would endorse such an event.

    True, I am frustrated by the article, I addressed it to Chris Reynolds since he is Publisher and Editor Director for SCB.

    I did immediately get a response that day (yesterday) but had been swamped from my "to do" list that only now have I had the time to share it with you. To refresh... Here is what I wrote:

    Chris,
    In regards to your article: https://socalbicyclist.com/regulars/haibike-emtb-race

    Are you taking into consideration the conflicts that E-Bikes are creating or are you just looking at the financial opportunity it provides for you. With all the conflict and potential legalities that E-Bikes bring to the United States. The controversy of Trail Advocacy and Trail Access, as well as the years of efforts that have been put forth by many for the last 12 years in effort to sustain our trail access, E-Bikes are moving onto our trails faster then clear legislation is being provided.

    There is much disdain for the "Me" attitude of pro E-Bike participants not taking into consideration the potential consequences prior to clear designation and proper application.

    I would hope you would take that into consideration if you truly care about the long term access and public perception of cyclist in general in regards to cycling trails in the US.

    I have posted these comments over on my MTB Forum...

    Mike Watson
    imtbtrails.com


    What was more surprising was Chris's response. Pro E-Bike folks... Rejoice in Chris's response.


    Chris's response back to me....

    Thank you for your readership and for taking the time to contact me. Earlier this year, we published a piece in our magazine by Kevin Loomis, President of the San Diego chapter of IMBA that brought up issues of wilderness access and leadership, but it seems there is room for more perspective specific to eMTB and trail access.

    I wasn't familiar with your site - what a vibrant community that you and your members have created at imtbtrails.com! You've built a great resource for cyclists in SoCal! I've addressed specifics to your note below (different color) and look forward to a continued dialogue.

    --------

    Chris,
    In regards to your article:
    https://socalbicyclist.com/regulars/haibike-emtb-race

    Are you taking into consideration the conflicts that E-Bikes are creating or are you just looking at the financial opportunity it provides for you.

    Neither, really. We aren't familiar with the conflicts you're mentioning, though I'd be interested in knowing more. It was a unique event for Sea Otter, being the first of it's kind in the US, and something that we wanted to capture in our magazine, similar to the Brompton folding bike race also covered in the same issue. Additionally, it was originally a photo spread in the magazine - it was more about the event than about eMTB.

    As the event was held on a closed course and on private land, it seems like it would be the only acceptable use of eMTB from your perspective. Please clarify what the issue is? I wish there was a financial opportunity on our end, that would then justify the negative goodwill we now have on your MTB forum, but alas, our phones remain silent.

    With all the conflict and potential legalities that E-Bikes bring to the United States.

    The controversy of Trail Advocacy and Trail Access, as well as the years of efforts that have been put forth by many for the last 12 years in effort to sustain our trail access, E-Bikes are moving onto our trails faster then clear legislation is being provided.

    I fully appreciate your passion about this, but at this point, wouldn't the best chance the MTB community has in keeping trails open be embracing the eMTB community as part of its own? It would seem the increased size of the collective to effect legislative change would be a good thing. By definition, legislations are laws created collectively. Anything that can help increase the size of this MTB "collective" is a quiver in the fight against equestrians and environmentalists who will invariably lump the two together when demanding change.

    If a non-cyclist considers a road bike and a mountain bike effectively the same, how would they be able to tell the difference of a pedal-MTB and an eMTB? If anything, they would assume the intimidating looks of downhill bikes (full suspension, crown fork, moto frame) are the "ebikes" everyone keeps complaining about. And the governments and municipalities aren't going to take the time to differentiate either. They are going to lump it them all together as "bicycles".

    Knowing this, it seems like it would be an immediate goal for MTB enthusiasts to actively bring in new eMTB riders for education, mentorship and introduction to local clubs and communities. By alienating this potentially huge group of people from joining the fight for trail use, the MTB community will take all the downside for eMTB riders and benefit from none of the upside that those individuals would bring by inclusion. You, as the moderator of a site and the enthusiasts who are members of your site have the power to influence this.

    There is much disdain for the "Me" attitude of pro E-Bike participants not taking into consideration the potential consequences prior to clear designation and proper application.

    And the entire environmental community feels this about bikes in general in the wilderness. There needs to be more people on our side of the fight and ebike adoption by the mainstream has the potential to do this as it has in Europe, where it has also increased pedal-MTB adoption during the same time period.

    I would hope you would take that into consideration if you truly care about the long term
    access and public perception of cyclist in general in regards to cycling trails in the US.


    Of course, as a cyclist and publisher of a cycling magazine that is wholly dependent on the existence of cycling in the California and the US, I absolutely care about the perceptions of cyclists and the rights cyclists have on the roads and trails. And in that, I see the benefit of ebikes bringing more people who will be advocates for furthering the issues you and I care about.


    I have posted these comments over on my MTB Forum...

    Feel free to share mine, similarly.



    Warm regards,


    mail_round.png

    Chris Reynolds / Publisher & Editorial Director chris@socalbicyclist.com / (949) 264-3346 x 700

    SCB: Southern California Bicyclist Office: (949) 264-3346 14252 Culver Dr. Irvine, CA 92604 https://socalbicyclist.com


    NOW...
    There is no doubt, that Chris is a gentlemen. I certainly have respect for that. If I had someone out of the blue make a comment like I did to him I would hope I would respond in like matter, and I usually do. But I don't buy (at all) what Chris responded, and upon posting this going to invite him to sign up on imtbtrails and disuss this further...

    1) Close course for E-MTB's. Not familiar with the controversy?
    Chris that Statement on the surface seems a bit presumptive on your part sir. Are you assuming that E-MTB'ers are training for an E-MTB event on exclusively closed courses? Training on their Human Powered (H-Bikes) only on legal trails to get ready for a closed course E-MTB event? Or is it possible, owners of E-Bikes are training on non motorized trails?

    Chris, as a journalist, I find it impossible that you would not have by now researched and discovered the conflict ensuing regarding the concerns for E-Bikes. Look at every article regarding the product reviews of these motorized vehicles and read the comments at the bottom by the readership. Mountain Bike Action, Bicycle Magazine, etc... all have touched on E-Bikes, all have comments of concerns, anger, and frustration within the comments section.

    2) Wouldn't the best chance the MTB community has in keeping trails open be embracing the eMTB community as part of its own?
    Chris, one would initially think this. But I would assume that it would be someone less seasoned and knowledgable about the history of mountain bike accessibility that would suggest this my friend, which is surprising that you would ask such a question. Bicycles are restricted from wilderness access because there are "some" who have concluded that a bicycle is a mechanical apparatus. Truth be told , so are a pair of snow ski's, a row boat, and a wheel barrow. Based on this, special interest groups (The Sierra Club for one) has utilized that stipulation to lawyer up and do huge land grabs and have designated millions of acres to "wilderness" in successful effort to eliminate thousands of miles of established singletrack from our user group.

    With the new development and infiltration of "motorized" bicycles into the US, why would traditional cyclist desire them to be included with H-Bikes and confuse even further our efforts to regain and retain access to trails. Classifying an E-Bike with traditional bicycles further strengthens the position of our opponents justifying the closures. One can say what they may, but the bottom line is, an E-Bike is a motorized vehicle and NOT a bicycle. Oh, it's in the form of a bike, but it has a motor. Why would we include a "Motorized Vehicle" in our right for bicycle trail access?

    3) By alienating this potentially huge group of people from joining the fight for trail use.
    Chris, this potentially huge group of E-Bike trail users may very well not be those we want to join to have help represent us. Cyclist that are anti E-Bike seem to have concerns about the demographics of that user group. I'll share mine...
    • When you make something easier a wider span of people get involved. Look at a city parking lot. Trash everywhere, graffiti, disrespect for the property. Look at trails that are close with easy hiking access. Same things. Large boulders with graffiti and trash. How come you don't find that at the top of Mt. Whitney?
    • Lawsuits close areas. What does Snow Sumitt, The California Aqueduct, and Tapia have in common? Lawsuits by inexperienced riders and people who probably should not have been on bikes closed those areas. Snow Sumitt closed for 10 years depriving 1,000's of cyclist of it's trails. All due to an inexperienced cyclist who was seriously injured and sueing. Snow Sumitt spent over 1 million dollars to defend itself and won the case, but still spent . . . 1 million dollars. California Aqueduct is still closed to cyclist due to a simular case. The California Aqueduct was built with tax payers money in promise of such a recreation. Tapia is a local riding area in Castaic. The original acces is now closed due to a pending lawsuit by someone injured on a "motorized" scooter. Cyclist are banned from using that access road. Since then we now have to enter from a new location. People are going to buy E-Bikes and do things now they could not do before. More injuries due to less experience, more lawsuits, more rescues, more unwanted attention to cyclist on trails. Bad publicity.
    • E-Bikes rob the trails of the purity of true cycling. There is already a growing bad vibe between H-Bikes and E-Bikes. Motorized vehicles on non motorized trails is illegal. The push for them on the trail is faster than proper legislation is being written. And.... As cheesy as this statement may sound, I will admit that I believe that riding an E-Bike is cheating and lesser than real cycling. Fortunately, I live in a very secluded part of the very lower central California called Frazier Park. I have yet to see an E-Bike in my neck of the woods. But if they were on my trails, I would be disgusted. I believe you should earn your descent. Call me simple, but I have loved my sport since 1990. To the point I have dedicated several years now to building this site. They are an abomination to the trails and emotionally pollute what is pure and perfect to me. They make me very sad.
    Chris,
    I appreciate the nice things you have said about imtbtrails. I don't want you to think for a moment that you are not welcome here. You are very much welcome! I also commend your article regarding IMBA's lack of wilderness action!

    I am indeed a bit concerned for what appears to be a simplistic view (I mean that kindly) in regards to E-Bikes however. It makes me think one of a couple things are going on.
    1. Either you completely have lived in a vacuum and do not realize the years of efforts that have gone into trail advocacy by great people before us to include IMBA who has stated they are oppose to E-Bikes on non motorized trails. That we are in a constant battle to NOT lose more land to wilderness. Which seems unlikely based on your article on IMBA.
    2. You are naively optimistic about the mass caliber of the next generation E-Bike consumer and about the real potential consequences.
    3. Or... You are a paid spokesperson for people like Specialized and Hailbikes and your job is to promote and defend the oncoming E-Bike financial bankroll that turns our great sport into a circus. :rolleyes:Ha hah!
    I mean all things respectfully. I hope you take the time to respond here, and answer questions and concerns that I or members of imtbtrails might toss your way...

    Mikie
    imtbtrails
     
    MnMDan, HBkites, RS VR6 and 12 others like this.
  2. hill^billy

    hill^billy iMTB Rockstah

    Wow!
     
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  3. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail
    So Chris thinks more e-bikes will help trail access. Interesting.

    We do agree on one thing - other trail users will not be able nor care to distinguish between e-motor-bikes and regular mt. bikes. He says that's a good thing. I say that's our potential final nail in the coffin of trail access.
     
    HBkites, tick, hill^billy and 4 others like this.
  4. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    CA
    Name:
    Chicken Nugget
    Current Bike:
    2018 Guerrilla Gravity SMASH
    Keep fighting the good fight @Mikie!
     
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  5. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    North East Canada? , California
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9, Santa Cruz Hightower
    Laying in bed last night thinking about what I wrote, one would think that I have no compassion for those who absolutely require pedal assist. At this point in this discussion, I'm only referring to those fully capable to ride a bike. I will address the issues of diverse accessibility down the line....;)
     
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  6. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Troutman, NC
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    Sigh. It's always about the money. eBikes (just mopeds 40 years later) mean dollars for as long as the hype lasts (and as long as people have $7000 to spend). Trail access means more eBike demand. Therefore eBike trail access is considered a foregone conclusion.

    And THIS is why you see trail militancy from so many hiking groups.
     
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  7. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Troutman, NC
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    I'm sorry Mikie I don't agree. I'm getting tired of this world being about a sense of entitlement. If I have an accident and lose a leg, I don't suddenly expect Yosemite to create ski lifts up Half Dome so I can summit. If I become too old to canoe in the Border Lakes region of Minnesota, I don't expect them to suddenly open wilderness lakes to motor boats. If I become too fat to hike trails in Yellowstone, I don't expect them to suddenly widen the trails to allow 4WD vehicles.

    I could go on and on.

    I have become more and more convinced that proper conservancy of the wild spaces in our country has become more a question of protecting nature from people - and the lasting damage they do - than providing access.

    If you want to experience the wild there is a price that you must pay in terms of effort and ability and lack of comfort. Otherwise sit at home and watch the Nature Channel.

    Do you know that even now people are trying to figure out a way to offer high-altitude helicopter rides to the summit of Everest? To me it is obscene.
     
    john_hovard, mike, LLPoolJ and 9 others like this.
  8. scan

    scan iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    fran allas
    Current Bike:
    Scott Spark
    Accessibility for those with disabilities allows people to use their body, not motors, e.g. Arm bikes, adapted skis, etc. HUMAN powered still.
     
    mike, LLPoolJ, Mikie and 2 others like this.
  9. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Troutman, NC
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    If vets missing legs can summit Everest, I'm sure people can figure out a way to get back to Holy Jim Falls... if they want to. This isn't about access. It's about EASE of access. "Gee I'm getting old so it is too much effort for me to ride a mountain bike." So sad, too bad - it will happen to us all.

    Difficulty of access is what makes the wild wild. Why don't we just fund free helicopter rides to Joplin Trail Head? Do you think Joplin would be the same if it became a shuttle? I have been to places where I wonder if I am the first human to have ever visited - and NONE of them were easy to get to.

    Nothing quite like hiking in Hawaii, coming to a pristine waterfall, being the only person there, and getting buzzed by helicopters... "oh but the helicopters are NECESSARY to allow people to see the waterfalls who otherwise wouldn't be able to see them." THAT'S THE POINT!
     
    Faust29, Mikie, mtnbikej and 3 others like this.
  10. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    "Of course, as a cyclist and publisher of a cycling magazine that is wholly dependent on the existence of cycling in the California and the US, I absolutely care about the perceptions of cyclists and the rights cyclists have on the roads and trails." Chris Reynolds / Publisher & Editorial Director chris@socalbicyclist.com / (949) 264-3346 x 700

    "Chris, as a journalist, I find it impossible that you would not have by now researched and discovered the conflict ensuing regarding the concerns for E-Bikes. Look at every article regarding the product reviews of these motorized vehicles and read the comments at the bottom by the readership. Mountain Bike Action, Bicycle Magazine, etc... all have touched on E-Bikes, all have comments of concerns, anger, and frustration within the comments section." Mikie

    Here's another forum discussing the conflict, with both sides represented:
    http://www.vitalmtb.com/forums/The-Hub,2/Will-Electric-Downhill-Bikes-Become-A-Thing,9233?page=1
     
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  11. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail
    We are becoming the people depicted in the movie Wall-E. Let's go to "Buy and Large!"
     
  12. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    "As the event was held on a closed course and on private land, it seems like it would be the only acceptable use of eMTB from your perspective. Please clarify what the issue is?" Chris Reynolds

    The issue is that they are illegal to use on non-motorized trails, but being ridden on non-motorized trails. Increased use could jeopardize legitimate mountain bike access as E-bikes get harder to distinguish from human-powered bikes, and public outcry lumps the two together. Clear enough?
     
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  13. Louis Zegarra

    Louis Zegarra Member

    Location:
    Eastvale
    Name:
    LouisZ
    Current Bike:
    Giant Stance
    On point 3 - 1st bullet, I just can't fathom anyone that have the means to put down 7k for an e-bike be a lowlife to trash or graffiti the surrounding areas. I suppose it could happen but it would be out of the norm in my opinion.
     
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  14. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    Good point, Louis. Mike's assertion of easy access leading to degradation is easily proven by looking at National Forest trail heads and recreation areas, but may not apply to E-bike users.

    On the other hand, there does seem to be a corollary between how hard people work for something and how much respect they have for it.
     
  15. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Troutman, NC
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    I don't think environmental sensitivity and disposable income are in the slightest way correlated.

    I think you are just as likely to be dirt poor and care for the environment and spend your weekends picking up trash back in CNF as you are to be well-off and treat the environment with disdain (and vice versa). I have seen plenty of examples of all types.
     
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  16. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Troutman, NC
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    This has just become my signature.
     
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  17. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    Another argument I've heard for E-bikes is your (fill in the blank) can keep up and enjoy the ride. So the "E" could stand for Equalizer. There's a belief we should all be equal, even as nature argues the point. Equalizer-bikes are an attempt to even the score.

    But theoretically, once faster h-p riders get tired of having weaker E-riders catch them on climbs, they'll get E-bikes, too, and drop the posers.

    And besides, speed and fitness often come at the expense of lots of training, and training involves learning technical skills as they're required. Jump right into speed without the experience and you'll soon become familiar with another E, the E-mergency room.

    I'll agree in advance, much of this is conjecture. But sometimes the discussion is overlooked in the race for profits or expediency. Take cell phones for example. Great invention, but should we really be able to text while driving? One unintended consequence for this convenience (for cyclists) is an increase in road riders being killed.
     
  18. fos'l

    fos'l Well-Known Member

    Name:
    Bob
    Current Bike:
    2005 Santa Cruz Superlight
    I think the intent of the "can keep up" statement is meant for a group (spouses for example) that want to ride together but have unequal ability and will never have it. Worked well for me when I tried it.
     
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  19. hill^billy

    hill^billy iMTB Rockstah

    So my "wow" post did not have much depth to it did it? Just my reaction to how Mikie has jumped right in the middle of it! The members here have shinned a light on this very new and touchy situation with alot of intelligent obsevation that I at first, did not fully understand. I can't really say anything more . But I do have a proposal.
    One of the dilemmas we face is that we WILL be lumped in with motor bikes, and we all agree that that IS WHAT AN E-bike IS! And if it is, than this really is the end times the good book tells us about! Everything that is right, will be wrong, and everything that is wrong, will be right.
    I have decided that starting today, I will differentiate myself from riding a e-bike on strava and in videos, by putting in my text or titles N-bike, of course meaning non, or no. This way we can clarify who is riding what easily. I hope and ask that if you ride a N-bike that you will clarify it, I believe this clarification will be up to us, and if enough of the purity seekers do this than it should send a strong message! Now some of you purity rock stars have alot of followers, I'm hoping for viral? What do you think?
     
  20. dstepper

    dstepper Member

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Dean Stepper
    Current Bike:
    2014 Turner Czar
    It seems like the general consentience of the MTB crowd is e-bike are motorized and should only be on motorized approved trails and roads. With that said, the argument of losing trail access would be looking at how those that poach human powered trails on motos and the resulting loss of MTBing trails. To my knowledge history shows that has not been the result. Motos have got more trails closed to motos with their behavior than turning muti-use trails into hiking only trails. Motos poach the Santa Ana single tracks often. I have heard of no talk from the forest service about turning trails into hiking and horse only due to outlaw moto behavior.

    I like discourse and arguing facts as long as no personal attacks and well thought out arguments. I see the argument of loss of MTBing access more of an emotional response than an actual outcome. Illegal trail build, night riding, poaching and rude behaviors to me are much more of an actual risk. Since I am guilty of all the above accept rude behavior I will ride my e-bike in places that the MTBing crowd does not ride.

    Dean
     
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  21. skyungjae

    skyungjae Member

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    Name:
    Kyung Jae
    Current Bike:
    2015 Santa Cruz Bronson C
    no comment... :p
     
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  22. Louis Zegarra

    Louis Zegarra Member

    Location:
    Eastvale
    Name:
    LouisZ
    Current Bike:
    Giant Stance
    I think they are. If you go to a poor country what do you see? trash and poverty, you don't see poor people picking up after themselves, it is just a fact of life.
     
  23. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail
    Respectfully, that's not an apt comparison. Hikers and equestrians can tell the difference between a moto and a bicycle. They can't tell the difference between an e- mt. bike and a pedal mt. bike.
     
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  24. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    2 SC and a STDM
    We keep mentioning the 7,000-10,000 Specialized bikes, but the eBay e-bikes, one of which I saw in Aliso, are more in the neighborhood of a regular mountain bike in price.
     
    pachaven and Mikie like this.
  25. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    North East Canada? , California
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9, Santa Cruz Hightower
    Or stolen....
    Or purchased used...
    Or over time the price comes way down...

    But I'm reflecting more on the mentality of ease of access in general and how that has traditionally lowered the caliber of public participation.
     
  26. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    2 SC and a STDM
    I'm just pointing out that the barrier to entry isn't as steep as the Specialized offering, which complicates the front against their proliferation significantly. And, these cheaper bikes are the ones I've actually seen in the wild. We worry that the Specialized sales pitch may or may not contain instruction on trail legality. I'm saying that the Chinese offerings will definitely not. And their purchasers? Are they as clued-in as the guy who will drop $10k in RnR, such as Dean? Probably not...
     
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  27. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Troutman, NC
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    Heck if people are willing to spend $500 on a Chinese "electric hoverboard" that bursts into flames, I can only imagine what we will see when eBikes are available at $1000. High school drinking parties at Old Camp anyone?

    Quick search on Alibaba can show you what's right around the corner:
    screenshot-www alibaba com 2016-06-12 07-58-45.png

    I can fill a 20' container with 100 units for $42,000, get a full container shipping rate China to LA for $2400, and pick up 100 bikes from Long Beach harbor at a landed cost of $444 per unit. Sell for $995 and make a decent profit after some other shipping and storage costs. They are still boxed, so shipping direct to consumer is no problem, and UPS does business pick-ups for free :) It's coming, people... be ready for it.
     
    Faust29, Mikie, StrandLeper and 2 others like this.
  28. Louis Zegarra

    Louis Zegarra Member

    Location:
    Eastvale
    Name:
    LouisZ
    Current Bike:
    Giant Stance
    LET'S DO IT :)
     
  29. fos'l

    fos'l Well-Known Member

    Name:
    Bob
    Current Bike:
    2005 Santa Cruz Superlight
    I've had near head on collisions with MTB's several times over the years when I was ascending a steep hill and they were descending out of control. A couple were avoided by essentially diving off the trail. Additionally, I've seen individuals riding recklessly in crowded parks (when showing visiting friends around) endangering everyone. TO ME, this is a much greater problem for access than eMTB's.
     
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  30. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    Why don't we just cut to the chase? Dirty booger posted this shot of an Alta Redshift MX battery-powered motorbike in Vital MTB. It looks way more fun than these other E-bikes we're talking about and you don't have to worry about pedal strikes on turns.

    2016-MX-1.jpg
     
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