Damn...Now Idyllwild is burning..

I think that someone who lacks sufficient thought process to realize that shooting flares off during extreme fire weather may result in a catastrophic fire is probably not going to think even further ahead to the hand chop or whatever other punishment he might face. A lot of people are just too self-absorbed and ambivalent to think about what is going around them. If we are going to punish people who start fires, should we not also punish people who take actions that could have easily started a fire? Like throwing a cigarette out your car window. Or an unattended or abandoned campfire. It can come down to good or bad fortune whether things like that start a wildfire fire...

 

It scares me alot when I think how easy it would be for a handful of terrorists what they could do to this state. Scary!
Brandon Maglover is the ass wipes name who started it.

 

Once upon a time there was indigenous peoples who would burn the land each year which kept it check. Later the Spaniards came with range cattle, sheep with shepherds. They grazed the land until there was little left. Then came all the people and they did not like the cattle so they took the land and sent the steers away. Then all the grass and scrub began to cover the land with quick burning vegetation. Soon the people became too crowed and closed the land to most users so it would be a wilderness again. Then the damaged people among them came and started fires. Then each October the high winds would dance the power lines to light the scrub on fire where it raced the wind into the steep mountains filled with chaparral and pines. Then the people sat bewildered wondering why fire is so prevalent and the fires seemed bigger. Once upon a time...

 

Hate crime!

 

Somewhat similar to the recent fire through Oaks and Peters.

Started by Caltrans using flares on the 91 for street sweeping safety during Santa Ana winds as the story goes.

Rekindled due to OCFA inattention during further Santa Ana winds.

All kept relatively quiet. You think there'd be some lawsuits.

 

There have been lawsuits over the big San Diego fires in 2007 which were caused by San Diego Gas & Electric powerlines arcing during Santa Ana winds. They were found responsible for the fires but are still trying to pass on costs related to the fires to rate payers rather than their shareholders taking the hit. Cases are still ongoing 11 years later.

 

Last year's Napa/Sonoma fires were the same.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2017_Northern_California_wildfires#Investigation

 

You and I are on the same track here. The penalties should have a permanent effect.

 

Big money companies have the money to tie up lawsuits forever and ever.

 

Now 4700 acres, 5% containment

 

We have lots of Non thinkers and mentally ill folk in our world. More being born daily. How do we change the cycle? Punishing after the fact is to late and fixes nothing. Sometimes its removes said person from society.
I came from parents that should not have had children. There parents the same. Chaotic hoseholds, lots of alcohol, arguing and the such. Some how my bro came out patient and mostly calm. Me on the other hand, drug some of the bad character into my family. Luckily I became aware of it before it was to late. Its a daily struggle. I am convinced I have slight mental illness from the adventure of my youth.
About 5 years back just after my Pops passed is when I realized this. Called my mother had the most heated argument in my life with her. Explained many of my feelings to her. She did not have a clue. Blamed me for ruining her day. Have not spoke with her since and no plans on it. Since this day I have become more aware of my faults. The guilt of my past will never go away. Hopefully it fades.
I had to call the cops on a neighbor the other evening due to an incident that took me right back to my youth. I will no longer stand by and let this happen. Nieghbors are not real happy with me. But hopefully they will become aware of what they are doing. Told them I will call every time things get out of hand. I want there kids to understand that this is not normal and they have people watching after them. Found out later another neighbor was also paying attention and recorded the incident. New best friends for me.
Many types of punishments have been used throughout history mostly uneffective. We still have crime. When I used to go into rage states nothing but anger went through my brain. Concequences were not a deterent.
Sorry to go so deep but not sure the ritual of punishment solves anything and I felt my story helps others realize it starts as parents. And in regards to accidental fires lit by employees, that is not preventable either. Everyone is born with the ability to think but somewhere along the line they chose not to develop that skill, not sure how to change this.

 

Whoa - that's heavy ^^^^^. Glad to hear that you figured out and worked around that crappy upbringing.

Like everything having to do with shaping people's behavior, there needs to be a combination of laws (including consequences) and education to develop appropriate social behavior. Alcohol, drugs, mental illness and crappy parenting circumvent all of that - but we still must try.

As for swift and severe punishment - that's always a tempting solution. "Off with their heads" - public executions and torture were very prominent behavior control mechanisms of the Middle Ages. However, you better have an amazingly accurate and fair judicial system leading up to those severe punishments, otherwise it's you and me we are talking about - guilty if accused. Some segments of society bear more than their share of that already.

Arson leading to great loss and manslaughter due to reckless disregard for others (killing a cyclist while driving distracted for example) should carry very stiff penalties. Personally, I draw the line significantly before cutting off body parts or burning at the stake as punishment, due to the aforementioned inadequacies of the justice system and the likelihood of over-reach and error.

As for the education component of how we treat others - well, if parents and role models aren't on board, the school system tries to teach right from wrong, appropriate social behavior, caring for others and such, but the role models in the home and neighborhood are far more powerful than a school system that has no meaningful consequences at its disposal. Wish us luck. We will always believe we can make a difference.

I applaud you (@LLPoolJ ) for "educating" your neighbor. That's an important part of bringing up kids - stepping up when others fail.

 

It's not like we have a justice system that is designed to fail, focusing on punishment rather than rehabilitation so the the individuals become institutionalized rather than reformed, ensuring that the recidivism rate remains high so that we can feed our huge prison industrial complex and keep their pockets lined.


Maybe instead of severing body parts, the guilty party should have responsibility of rebuilding and restoring. I think sending him to look in the eyes of the person whose home was just burned down would be more effective than just throwing them in jail.

Edit.
It's really a shame air Idyllwild though... Never ridden there but I hope the loss is kept to a minimum.
Instead of

 

I’m sorry to hear this. I hope one day that you will reconnect.

 

Nothing to be sorry about. Just explaining how shitty people's upbringing can be and could be a reason why they do what they do. My parents thought thwy were doing it right. Were they? Are we?
I am assuming that the people commiting these horrible crimes believe they have very little to live for. I felt that way for years luckily I did not do anything bad. Just anger. So how do you punish someone that feels this way?

 

Here is the dilemna... As far as PG&E. Sure......we can all go after them for these fires caused by powerlines in high wind situations....but the end result will be that they will just shut off the grid if winds hit a certain threshold to protect themselves.

 

I am so sad about Idyllwild, hoping for the best.

Maybe that should be what happens. Im sure the people in Napa last year would have gladly gone a few days without power (or run a generator) instead of losing everything?
There may be a measure on the ballot in Laguna Beach this year to underground the power lines in the canyon. Hell yes is my vote. My father in law is voting no because (taxes) and he thinks Edison is going to do it anyway soon without taxpayers paying for it. Their house almost burned im the '93 fire. (and actually burned in 2010 but not from a wildfire).
Sigh...

 

That’s gonna amount to a lot of paleontological standing around a backhoe and fossils pulled out of the ground. I could use the work, and that office wouldn’t suck.

 

http://abc7.com/cranston-fire-crews-continue-to-battle-4700-acre-blaze-in-idyllwild/3827025/

Scroll down theres a fire perimeter map.

 

Ugh

 

My wife and I were in the area this past weekend scouting ( no bikes ) Hurkey Creek and Lake Hemet. Both places were packed with people. We aslo stopped by Pinyon Campground too. Pinyon was empty. Pic #1 Lake Hemet. Pic # 2 and #3 Pinyon Camp ground. Pinyon campground had running water but I don't know if it was potable.

 

I’m going to get blasted...
That’s okay...
@LLPoolJ , I think it’s awesome that you are recognizing the need for change and whittling away at that! Shaping your kids is your responsibility and you are stepping up. Way. To. Go!
I do not believe it is the responsibility of our public school system to raise our kids. It’s the parents responsibility. Unfortunately, like @herzalot stated, so many parents are not stepping up and so the pressure for some kind of order has to happen, so our school system is attempting it.

Whether someone has a sense of right or wrong, if they have damaged other lives through their actions, there needs to be consequences. A society without consequences is not a society, it’s chaos. You think if we don’t post speed limits on the freeway and everyone knows it’s supposed to be 65, everyone is going to drive 65? Even getting tickets, they drive over 65. Take away their license on their first offense and watch the speed drop. Go to prison for a second offense and watch the speed drop. No rules, no law and order. Break the rules, severe consequences upon violation number 1.

If one of your kids got hit by a texting driver, you are telling me if they were put up in a reform house to learn the errors of their ways you are good with that? You still lost you child. How is it okay to destroy your life and then just go to school?

I don’t agree with a no punishment system.

 

Hopefully I am not being taken wrong. I am for laws and regs. Just believe we need to police ourselves more and not expect the elected elders to do it. We are the responsible party.

 

I agree underground is the way it will go..and should go. There are a bunch of remote power lines however, and that will take many years. As far as Napa...In hindsite I also agee....they would have voted to turn off the power for a bit had they known...but i really doubt you would have gotten a buy in pre-fire. Fact is....we just dont want to be inconvenienced.

 

Apparently there is another fire burning in the area.....this time it is up across the 74 from the top of Palm Canyon(Pine View Drive)

Currently 100 acres / 0% containment

https://twitter.com/CALFIRERRU/status/1022579121098973185

 

Fire perimeter from InciWeb. The good news for now (for trails) is it mostly moved south of Idyllwild. Looks like it has burned a bit of the trail network west of the Art School. Hopefully it is not intense with crown torching and is not moving north. Bad news is it looks like it's already burned through May Valley again.

The gap in fire spread at bottom is at Mountain Center where 74/243 meet, so it is a long ways east of the road now.

 

I've camped there a bunch of times. The water from those spigots is good. It can be kind of a weird crowd camping there - used to always be empty but now the tweaker / semi homeless crowd seems to have discovered it. I haven't had any issues but am careful to lock anything of value in my truck rather than leave it in my tent

 

“It can be kind of a weird crowd camping there- used to always be empty but now the tweaker / semi homeless has dicoverd it.” Man we are in trouble! I believe the hole mess we are in now derived from drugs and alchohol! Unfortunately for LL it’s all to real and many others. This is the parenting that is going on. Not so hard to figure out now is it? There is a serrious epidemic going down, personally I don’t think it can be turned around, it’s a bit to late. Oops negative, sorry.

 

Llpoolj...
Thanks for sharing ur thoughts..