But probably still with no enforcement...

Discussion in 'Free Zone' started by Faust29, Aug 19, 2018.

  1. Faust29

    Faust29 iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve
    Current Bike:
    Chameleon & Highball C
    @Mikie - This was posted by the parks on their website, so I though it was relevant. If it causes the usual e-problems, please delete.



    This popped up on the OC Parks website two days ago... The last two paragraphs are probably the most misunderstood and misapplied.

    http://www.ocparks.com/parks/ronald/news/details?NewsID=5523&TargetID=43


    Electric Bicycles Prohibited in Parks, Permitted on Some Regional Bikeways



    Orange County Codified Ordinances prohibit the use of motorized conveyances in County parks and recreation areas. This includes the use of all types of e-bikes and e-mountain bikes in regional and wilderness parks.

    A July 17, 2018 revision to OCCO 2-5-29(n) makes the following exception for some regional bikeways: “Class 1 and Class 2 electric bicycles, as defined by the California Vehicle Code, on those regional paved, off-road bikeways designated for such use by the Director of OC Parks.”

    Currently, this means that Class 1 and 2 electric bicycles are only permitted on the following County bikeways: Coyote Creek, Santa Ana River Trail, San Diego Creek, Peters Canyon, Hicks Canyon, Aliso Creek, Salt Creek Trail and San Juan Creek bikeways.

    Visitors riding e-bikes in other County park facilities or trails are subject to citation.

    Other Power-Driven Mobility Devices

    In 2010, the United States Department of Justice (DOJ) revised rules to the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) effective March 15, 2011. These rules allow a mobility device defined by DOJ rules as a wheelchair to be permitted in any areas open to pedestrian use.

    Additionally, the DOJ recognized “Other Power-Driven Mobility Devices” (OPDMD) to be used by “individuals with mobility disabilities.” The DOJ requires land owners and land managers to make reasonable modifications to public access policies and establish procedures to allow the use of OPDMD devices by individuals with mobility disabilities.

    Information about American Disability Act mobility device rules can be found here.
     
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  2. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS
    YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    Hopefully this means that they will start enforcing the law.
     
    MattB, Grego, Obsidian and 8 others like this.
  3. Danimal

    Danimal Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Mission Viejo
    Name:
    Dan
    Current Bike:
    Rocky Mountain Altitude

    I'll agree with that sentiment .

    Although I may need one soon enough at the rate I'm going...
    Haven't seen as many ebikes lately on the trail, which is nice
     
    Faust29, Danmtchl, mike and 3 others like this.
  4. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS
    Depends on the park and the day/time. Seeing lots of them at Oaks.
     
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  5. tick

    tick Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Tick
    Current Bike:
    Process 111
    Would the parks let me stand at the Jamboree gate and pass out flyers on Saturday morning?

    Would bike shops mind if I hung out in front handing out the parks web address?

    Just tryin to be helpful.
     
  6. Danimal

    Danimal Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Mission Viejo
    Name:
    Dan
    Current Bike:
    Rocky Mountain Altitude
    If it's public property then it's not an issue. Go for it, bringing awareness would be helpful.
     
  7. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot Well-Known Member

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    Watched a ranger ticket an Ebike rider this morning in Aliso...
     
  8. mike

    mike iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    Guerrilla Gravity Smash
    Detained and fined for being weak and/or lazy...that's gotta hurt. Hehe.


    Happy to see them where permitted. Where not...

    noweaksause.jpg
     
    Stkx66, Old&InTheWay, tick and 11 others like this.
  9. Faust29

    Faust29 iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve
    Current Bike:
    Chameleon & Highball C
    These rules allow a mobility device defined by DOJ rules as a wheelchair to be permitted in any areas open to pedestrian use.

    The future argument will be that e-bikes are wheelchairs!
     
  10. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Addict

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    Well, @mike started calling regular mountain bikes "in-line wheelchairs"...:unsure:
     
  11. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    '15 Intense Tracer 275c DVOish
    Rejoice!

    Never thought that would happen. I wonder how long it will last. Hope it doesn't go any further (like, prohibiting bicycles).
     
  12. tick

    tick Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Tick
    Current Bike:
    Process 111
    Where do I send money to buy the county more of those “no ebike” stickers? If each trail sign needs a sticker that’s a lot of them, but I bet a $20 stack of stickers would go a long way.
     
  13. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS
    I'm hoping the signs go up soon.
     
  14. evdog

    evdog Well-Known Member

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    You can buy them on Rockart's website $.95/ea so $20 won't get you that far, but will be damn satisfying. The other sticker is on page 1. I know a guy who bought a stack and put them up on carsonite posts all over a trail network where bikes aren't allowed. Some of the local bro's were bummed they couldn't ride their e-bikes there anymore (even though they were never allowed to to begin with).

    https://www.rockartsigns.com/d72/ca...by=field_disp_sku_value&sort_order=ASC&page=5
     
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  15. littlewave

    littlewave Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Newport Beach
    Name:
    Brett
    Current Bike:
    Ibis Ripley LS
    finally!
     
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  16. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS

    Can anyone confirm this is wide spread, or did this rider just happen to be breaking other rules while riding an ebike?
     
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  17. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot Well-Known Member

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    The guy had just passed by me on the fire road, then shortly I caught up to him stopped at the ranger truck. I’m pretty sure he was behind me on Meadows, I don’t think he was doing anything else illegal. Dunno if it’s widespread or not, but it could be that since the website changed to clearly state this recently perhaps the rangers are being told to crack down.
     
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  18. Obsidian

    Obsidian Member

    Location:
    Costa Mesa
    Name:
    Obsidian
    Current Bike:
    2017 Intense Tracer
    Awesome news if so. I would call a number to report the bastards if I could. I really dislike those things.
     
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  19. kazlx

    kazlx Member

    Location:
    Tustin, CA
    Name:
    Joe
    Current Bike:
    Banshee Spitfire
    I'm probably in the minority, but they don't really bother me. I'd honestly like to ride one just to have an informed opinion on how they actually work and feel, but I'm definitely in the camp of otherwise thinking they are lame and unnecessary. I've been passed like I was standing still a few times on the loop by riders appearing 'less-than-fit'. I guess I'm usually just the live and let live type as long as it doesn't negatively impact the trails or other people's experience. I can honestly say that people bumping backpack speakers annoy me way more than e-bikes. This is under the assumption they are more 'pedal-assist' and not electric throttle, which I'm sure is an entirely different argument...

    Honest question, what are people's main complaints about them on the trails?
     
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  20. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Addict

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    Speakers...would that flamethrowers were kosher. :eek:

    Mostly people are bothered by them because they are prohibited on most dirt and irresponsible users make us all look bad. Increases the chance of an indiscriminite ban on everyone.
     
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  21. kazlx

    kazlx Member

    Location:
    Tustin, CA
    Name:
    Joe
    Current Bike:
    Banshee Spitfire
    I'm still not entirely sure why they are prohibited though....seems sort of arbitrary. I get the fear of allowing 'electric motorcycles' and although I haven't personally ridden one, I think the majority are a far from that. FWIW the few irresponsible users of anything make everyone look bad. There's enough idiots on regular mtbs to make e-bikes look bad....
     
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  22. Derkderkall

    Derkderkall Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Covina
    Name:
    Derek Allison
    Current Bike:
    2012 Rockhopper 29
    Maybe now instead of making all mountain bikers look bad going downhill, it will make us look bad going up hill as well.
     
    Cyclotourist, Obsidian, Mikie and 6 others like this.
  23. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    '15 Intense Tracer 275c DVOish
    I've seen a ton of them on local and not-so-local trails. Most of the riders haven't really been an issue so far, and I confess I've experienced more douchebaggery from "real" mt. bikers pursuing STRAVA and YouTube heroics. But the idea of increasing the numbers of uninformed riders who don't know and don't care about the ongoing need for trail etiquette is the biggest fear. That and the speed discrepancy that is just begging for more serious collisions. A third concern is simply overuse of trails. If a guy can do five DH runs after work instead of one or two, there's that much more wear and tear on the trails. Add to that the overall increase in the number of riders on the trail because the things are "fun in both directions" and you have a potential threat to access for all bikes.
     
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  24. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Custom XTR 29er
    Woops cross posted from another thread. Sorry
     
    Cyclotourist likes this.
  25. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    '15 Intense Tracer 275c DVOish
    Ummmm.....

    Ohhh kaaaayyyyy....
     
  26. tick

    tick Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Tick
    Current Bike:
    Process 111
    I will second all this, and add two arguments.

    The first is aesthetic: we’ve been able to claim that we’re “human-powered” like hikers, and not really much faster than horses overall. We still experience moving through the environment at a human pace.

    The second is political: trails were only gradually opened to bikes after years of organized effort. Those “bikes yield to everyone” signs? Paid for by riders who knew how to play politics. Those trails stay open to us because officials like having us around. We do most of the trail work. We maintain a presence on trails that would otherwise be very tempting targets for illicit activities. We buy helicopter rides...(ok maybe that’s not a plus).

    There was a time, not too long ago, that even trails like Holy Jim were closed to bikes. Access at Santiago Oaks was in doubt 10 years ago.

    I have yet to see a set of ethics established by ebikers regarding things like trail etiquette. There aren’t yet standards for what a “good” ebike trail looks like, where it should be, etc. I don’t expect there to be any of that for a while either. The poacher ethic dominates, and more than anything, the poacher ethic puts the last 30 years of mountain bike access growth at risk.
     
  27. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS
    Biggest issue......bicycles don't have motors. Allowing bicycles with motors on trails where motors are prohibited is what irks me. Add to that the in uphill speeds. Right now other trail users know that our uphill speed is pretty slow....but the closing speed of an ebike on a climb coming up behind a hiker or a horse is unnatural. Most non cyclists cannot tell the difference between a pedal bike and an ebike....so we all look alike.

    You will get riders farther out into locations that they probably shouldn't be in based on their fitness.

    For me it has nothing to do with Strava
     
  28. Andy

    Andy Member

    Location:
    The OC, Calif
    Name:
    Andy
    Current Bike:
    I've got a Silver Machine...
    Did you see Chicago in Kansas?
     
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  29. evdog

    evdog Well-Known Member

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    Good points. The speed differential and lack of etiquette among e-bike riders is a concern for sure. It is bad enough having riders ride downhill at irresponsible speed, but now they can do that going uphill too.

    Relating to the political comment above, what irks me is that e-bikes are coming in and just trying to jump on the coat tails of all the hard advocacy work done by mountain bikers. "Hey, we're mountain bikes too!" No, you're not. Don't pretend to be. How much advocacy have e-bikers or e-bike companies done to demonstrate that those bikes are an acceptable use in parks and public lands? Are there e-bike advocacy groups? Do e-bike riders get involved in advocacy? I've yet to see one show up and speak about e-bikes at any advocacy meeting, trail day, or other event. I'd be shocked to hear of any efforts aside from lobbying by e-bike manufacturers.
     
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  30. kazlx

    kazlx Member

    Location:
    Tustin, CA
    Name:
    Joe
    Current Bike:
    Banshee Spitfire
    Don't get me wrong, I don't understand the e-bike thing at all. If you are a relatively 'normal' human, increased fitness is part of the game. I remember when I first started riding I was so out of shape, I thought I was going to die on most climbs and seriously questioned if what I was doing was actually 'fun'. Looking back, all that pain was worth it and it's a mental thing that helps you become a better rider. I really don't get why there is a big push all of a sudden for e-bikes. I mean, I get it from a business perspective, it's one more avenue or hook they can use to get new customers, even if they never become a repeat customer, so it opens a bigger piece of the pie. It's lame to ride one to skip the suffering and just makes the sport more gimmicky overall IMO.

    I definitely understand the 'no motors' thing and it makes sense to me. It's way easier to regulate an all or nothing restriction than trying to allow some sort of a 'level' of assist. There's no real way to verify.
     
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