Are we stewards?

Discussion in 'Trail Advocacy' started by mike, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. mike

    mike iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    Guerrilla Gravity Smash
    Collectively speaking, are MTBers viewed by the public, and particularly land managers, as being stewards of our open spaces?

    What I tried to say last night to my friend @SnakeCharmer, but failed in delivery, was this: If we riders want a place at the table with land managers, and if riders seek to be taken seriously at all, we have to, at minimum, act as stewards of leave-no-trace principles. The managers/open spaces request that of all visitors, so, cool or not cool, how hard is it to not tag public property in the BC and post about it?

    What would any rational land manager think? Not steward material is what. Poor footing for us to negotiate from. We can do better, with zero effort. Thanks to everyone who does their part and more.
     
  2. LLPoolJ

    LLPoolJ Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Moreno Valley
    Name:
    James Johnson
    Current Bike:
    Specy Epic and Stumpy
    Well said.
     
  3. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    '15 Intense Tracer 275c DVOish
    Most of us try to be stewards. None of us is perfect.

    The public views us a nuisance - who do more harm than good.

    A sticker where there are already many stickers is not much of a transgression in my book, but I suppose one could equate it to throwing trash where others threw trash. Thanks for the reminder (scolding?) to have less of an impact.
     
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  4. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    Many land managers count on us to do the bulk of trail work on non-wilderness trails. If the concern is leaving no trash, we're 99+% compliant. If it's putting club stickers on official signage, I'd say not a great idea. If it's putting up e-bike signage on official sign posts, I'd recommend asking for permission and offering to help, if so inclined. We have also traditionally patrolled closed areas and served as hosts in parks and the national forest, so I'd say we're doing well.
     
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  5. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Crescenta Valley
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Snake"
    Current Bike:
    Salsa/Trek/Kona
    So ya didn't like my new sticker, huh? :(

    I wish I could get on board with you but I have mostly given up on humanity. If those who run our country/world can't get along and work as a team how are the rest of us supposed to feel assured that we can as individuals? I know that sounds negative but I think we all are well aware of it and most simply choose to ignore it. Ignoring is just as bad as denying it.

    Let the planet killer comet get here and fix the problem once and for all. Earth deserves better...
     
  6. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Addict

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    Unfortunately, human beings are entirely too ready to look at one dumbass and apply his/her/its behavior to a group, and so ban the group rather than go after the individual. Someday the race will grow up.
     
  7. Cyclotourist

    Cyclotourist iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Redlands
    Name:
    David
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Chameleon
    @riiz and I cleared some trash off the SART today! Kudos given all around!
     
  8. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Lebec, California
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Yeti ASR5c, SC Hightower
    I don’t think we are evaluated on sticker application.
    I think we are evaluated on our perceived “reckless” riding behavior we think amongst ourselves as normal cycling activity. I believe the number one reason we are considered bad stewards is because we are on stealthy fast bicycles that scare the Sh!t out of unsuspecting hikers. Period.

    We repair and maintain trails. There are probably some out there, but I have never seen an equestrian group get out and repair and maintain trails. I have seen Moto groups repair and maintain trails. I know a lot of us are always picking up trash while on our rides. I have not “heard of one imtb’er harass another user group.

    “I don’t think we are perceived by others as bad stewards by applying a sticker.

    Edit: Sorry, my last sentence was a double negative. Fixed it.
     
  9. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Crescenta Valley
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Snake"
    Current Bike:
    Salsa/Trek/Kona
    Good points.

    The general public is not aware of the whole picture, meaning that they probably think it's only the USFS that builds and maintains the trail systems. If only they knew, they might just have a better understanding.

    Meanwhile, I have a few more places to stick my stickers, yet... :sneaky:
     
  10. hill^billy

    hill^billy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Acton
    Name:
    Doug Lake
    Current Bike:
    Yeti SB-66
    “ I think we are evaluated on our perceived “reckless” riding behavior we think amongst ourselves as normal cycling activity. I believe the number one reason we are considered bad stewards is because we are on stealthy fast bicycles that scare the Sh!t out of unsuspecting hikers. Period.”

    I agree, period! I am not trying to be facetious, but I also feel sorry for you city folks, coexistence is seeminly very complicated!
     
  11. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Addict

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    Coexistence is overrated.
     
  12. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    '15 Intense Tracer 275c DVOish
    I am really confused. The @hill^billy I used to know had some substantial spelling difficulties. This new guy throws out coexistence, facetious, stealthy, unsuspecting, perceived..alarming, plausible (in a different recent post)...

    WHAT IS GOING ON HERE!!!!!!
     
  13. Luis

    Luis iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Sylmar
    Name:
    Luis
    Current Bike:
    Big Black 29er
    I go away for a couple of days and what do you guys do? I got a lot of reading and catching up to do :rolleyes:

    In other news, the Gabrielino trail is officially open from Switzers to JPL
     
  14. hill^billy

    hill^billy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Acton
    Name:
    Doug Lake
    Current Bike:
    Yeti SB-66
    Let me elaborate on your post hertz. Well I am married to a teacher. I hand over everything I write and she proof reads it, corrects my errors , and then enhances it to make me sound more intellectual than I really am. After all do you know any intelligent hillbillies?
     
  15. Cyclotourist

    Cyclotourist iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Redlands
    Name:
    David
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Chameleon
    Oh, oh, oh... I know one!!!

    thumbRNS-VANCE-QA.jpg
     
  16. hill^billy

    hill^billy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Acton
    Name:
    Doug Lake
    Current Bike:
    Yeti SB-66

    Well Sh!t howdy!
     
  17. mtbMike

    mtbMike Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Oceanside
    Name:
    Mike
    Current Bike:
    Intense Tracer & Primer
    Exactly....there is nothing we can do as mountain bikers that is going to have those that don't like us (such as the Sierra Club) going public and complimenting mountain bikers by referring to them as stewards of any sort.....unless it's as "stewards of environmental carnage".
     
  18. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Addict

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    So all we really need to do is point out how the Sierra Club prevents the average Joe from getting to the wilderness. Or even the local mountains. Point out what they've done with the San Gabriels...if you want to enjoy them it's all been locked up as wilderness or "National Monument." It's ridiculous, and needs to be publicly, and repeatedly, ridiculed for what it is. The Sierra Club can be made irrelevant very quickly.
     
  19. mtbMike

    mtbMike Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Oceanside
    Name:
    Mike
    Current Bike:
    Intense Tracer & Primer
    I disagree. If it was that easy, it would have already been done. Whether we like it or not, I would bet my house that the general public has a favorable opinion of the Sierra Club.
     
  20. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Lebec, California
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Yeti ASR5c, SC Hightower
    I’m no lover of the Sierra Club that’s for sure. But I do know we need “something” like them to help keep a balance. I tend to think that the Sierra Club will dwindle as the older members that are MTB haters pass on, and the newer SC’ers that both hike and ride begin to populate. At least that is my hope.
     
  21. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Crescenta Valley
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Snake"
    Current Bike:
    Salsa/Trek/Kona
    SWEEEET!!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  22. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Crescenta Valley
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Snake"
    Current Bike:
    Salsa/Trek/Kona
    Or, get rid of the Sierra Club... :sneaky::whistling:
     
  23. mike

    mike iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    Guerrilla Gravity Smash
    Hey, @SnakeCharmer...I do appreciate well designed graphics and brand design – I owe everything I have to the practice. It’s the placement, of course…

    I’m sad for your stance on humanity. I do believe that we little people have a collective power that, although sometimes fragmented and unfocused, has potential for much greatness. Be the change that you wish to see in the world. It’s not a command from Ghandi, but a principle. Your child deserves it, if not the rest of us as well. No scorched earth. You do have a lot of good to contribute, as you’ve shown on this site. And I never would have guessed such a jaded position from someone that I’ve met personally and had fun with. A bit vexing...or just the internet?


    @Mikie, I know you have a newfound interest in sticker application ;), but it would be disingenuous to propose that this unbecoming trail user behavior is overwritten by other good things we do. Everything matters – doubly so for actions that are broadcast. Trail work and negotiating with land managers is hard. Not pasting stickers in the BC and on others' property is not hard. I don't understand how one form of leaving trace gets a pass while others don't. Trash in the BC is trash. "Bad steward"...LOL :)


    Yes, thankfully the Sierra Club exists so we have an excuse to not up our game...we'll never make the steward grade, boohoo. :unsure:


    I've been involved in some level of recreational access for decades. One of the greatest commonalities in new restrictions and enforcement has traditionally generated from user behaviors. The entitled attitude that regulations don't apply to you, or that one infraction among many doesn't matter. Everybody's doing it, so why does it matter if I do?
     
  24. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Addict

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    Sorry, can't go along with this. It's saying it's okay to lump every cyclist into the same bag, just because they ride.

    I don't accept that. Individuals must be held accountable. Don't stuff me into their box, because I won't fit.
     
  25. dustyyoungblood

    dustyyoungblood Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Ladera Ranch
    Name:
    Dustan Baker
    Current Bike:
    Foes Mixer Trail
    Somebody put a sticker on something... hummn let’s hash this out.

    Did it kill a dolphin or a tree?
    Did is deface or destroy government or private property?
    Did it prohibit a gnatcatcher from nesting?
    Did it destroy a historic wetland area even if this area has not shown any signs of wetness for decades?

    If the answer is Yes to ANY of these questions than you shall be turned in to the sticker police.
     
  26. mike

    mike iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    Guerrilla Gravity Smash
    I'm not saying it's right, correct or anything. It's just perception, and that's human nature. You ride a MTB, and therefore you will be placed in a group by many, whether or not you like or agree with it. Birds of a feather, company you keep; all that.
     
  27. mike

    mike iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    Guerrilla Gravity Smash
    Well said – by a guy who doesn't mountain bike. :geek: Yes, stickers are defacement. Never tried to remove a bunch of them, I guess.
     
  28. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    Signs, too. Detract from the wildness of an area and are unnecessary and even obnoxious for those who can find their way without them or are comfortable with not knowing EXACTLY where they are, every dang second. Oh, that's just me ranting. They have their place, especially on freeways :), and good at trailheads, but after that I prefer figuring it out on my own.

    BTW, what's up with this weather? Is anyone talking about it?
     
  29. dustyyoungblood

    dustyyoungblood Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Ladera Ranch
    Name:
    Dustan Baker
    Current Bike:
    Foes Mixer Trail
    I take it all back, you are correct about this topic. I apologize for any comments I have ever made about stickers, sticker placement, or trail stewardship here on this forum.

    @Mikie I cannot locate a delete account feature. Can you direct me to it or please remove my account. Thanks
     
  30. doublewide

    doublewide Well-Known Member

    Name:
    Mark
    Current Bike:
    Ride Life Ride Giant
    Maybe we need a bulk buy on these....I prefer the orange, what say you?

    s-l300.jpg
     
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