World's Greatest Athlete - Ever

Kioti and Herzalot- Thanks, that was a magic day! It's a point tucked into a bay that you can only get to by boat. Uncrowded, perfect 200 yd long rights in warm water! Maybe my best day of surfing in over 35 years. My son got his first barrel ride that he came out of.

Again, terrible derail etiquette, so very sorry. Mikie- don't harsh me

 

Where would Tinker come in on this continuum of awesomeness? He's won just about everything, still rides/races, crazy fitness level. Seems like he would be up there somewhere in the virtual listings.

 

My gray hair is showing.....I still remember Kyle Rote Jr. kicking everyone's behind back on ABC's Superstars competition.

 

Definitely in there for longevity in the least. Scott Jurek retired from professional racing while still in his prime and fit at age 40 winning at just about everything he tried, which is the same age Tinker was hitting his second Olympics!

I imagine Tinker would probably be a good runner, and great at any other technical sport.

 

" At least he doesn't brag about how fast he is in every post, that to me is more polluting to this site."
I was voted in to this position by a group of peers, I have the right now.

 

I don't think riding necessarily translates into greatness in other "technical " sports.

 

I think the only way to settle this is to get Slater vs. Tinker in the octagon. Followed by a decathlon, a Triathlon, a round of golf, arm wrestling best of 3 rounds, and finish it live on american ninja warrior.

 

Finishing with a drinking contest in Nepal:

 

Tinker may do well in just about any endurance sport... Thanks to a little biological advantage. Not saying he's the greatest, but his stamina is mind boggling. My favorite -still- is getting passed by Tinker at the beginning of the Trabuco Challenge. I was going uphill at exactly 15MPH in a 4x4 when I saw him coming up fast in the mirror. It was cool to explain to the teenagers in the car who that "old" guy was flying uphill on a bike... Looking back over his shoulder every 15 seconds for the #2 rider. The #2 that was already several minutes back... by mile 3.

Tinker's Advantage:
"Around 1996, we were doing some physio testing at the Olympic training center in Colorado Springs," says Tomac. "We were doing VO2 max testing to failure, so you had to go all out until you couldn't continue. This test is really hard. It wipes everybody out. So it was something to see Tinker hooked up to VO2 cycling test machine; he really looked out of place and uncomfortable.

"And he really had the technicians stumped, because after the test they claimed that Tinker produced virtually no lactic acid," he says. "Which meant he really didn't fatigue."

 

If you don't think that mountain biking requires any skill, then that may be true. Considering that most agree that bike handling skills are a requirement to be fast, and not outright power, I disagree and call this a "technical sport". I came from motorcycle racing (where I am "good" at the amatuer level, but not great, and definitely not pro) and that is a HIGHLY technical sport. The fastest person I know is a retired motorcycle road race, and he makes up massive amounts of time in his ability to save energy by carrying speed instead of slowing down. He is actually the reason why I ride MTB, I raced motorcycles against him when he was doing amatuer motorcycle racing for fun. He has won the 12 Hours of Temecula multiple times, including getting most miles overall, while in a SS, and I asked him if he has ever raced Tinker. He said yes, and he can't even compare to Tinker.

That would make sense. Dean Karnazes is somewhat similar in that his lactic threshold is so high, he effectively never fatigues. He isn't the fastest, but he never has to stop, as long as he has calories in = calories out.

 

That isn't what I meant. Mtn biking definitely is skillful. When you said technical I thought of many other sports that require technical skill.

 

I think its fair to state that ultra endurance, strength, technical sporting skills, and longevity are 3 very different things. If you add them all up, Kelly Slater still wins no contest. thanks @herzalot

 

Like table tennis, cornhole and bowling.

 

Yes, Tinker's definitely cut from a different cloth. His speed and endurance is amazing to witness. -I was sending some friends off at the pow-wow one year, said bye to those guys at Blackstar gate, took in the scene a bit at the start, then went up to meet them at bottom of Motorway. Parked on Silverado streetside down from the gate. By the time I walked up to the Motorway exit, I already missed Tinker. He was already through there and gone!!! I couldn't believe it!
So I guess a valid question would be -is endurance just a single component of athleticism? Or is it a measurement yardstick for levels or degrees of athleticism?

This is getting heavy

 

I'm still easily giving it to Slatz

 

When I thought of Tinker, I wasn't just considering endurance & recovery. That's huge, but you have to be tough to take a beating on a MTB, going that fast is going to mean you take some hits! And I would say you need some amazing trail handling skills. True, a lot of the XC courses are pretty smooth, and are like road riding on the dirt, but technical skills are still needed in order to go as fast as the pros are. Tink has that, plus the endurance, plus the strength. Maybe not the best athlete in the world, but I think a valid nomination.

 

I don't have a dog in this race, but Tink's bike handling skills didn't come from XC... He was a pro BMX racer first, and got into endurance riding later in life. He can still ride the chunky stuff, as I witnessed when he bunny hopped a guard rail at the bottom of GMR and rolled down the side of a drop to the fire station below... with no trail. Or the "Tinker Line" at the bottom of Motorway... Up the cliff wall and over the moto barrier.

 

Oh, I totally agree. A very valid nomination. Some of my criteria is longevity and years of competition at the highest levels of the sport- which Tink easily has. He was in my BMX mags when I was 12. I'm 53

 

@Faust29 @MolarM I forgot all about his BMX past... yeah, he has the skillzzz!

 

I refer back to my earlier entry arguing the Decathalon. Several of the previous entries focus on ONE sport/event. The Decathalete does 10!!!
http://www.topendsports.com/world/lists/fittest-sport/decathlon.htm

Ride or surf THAT!!

 

It does for me. For example, riding a bicycle has transformed me into an excellent dancer

If you want it to count, it must be done in the nude while slathered in olive oil.

 

^^I always wondered how those old Greeks threw a spear with their arms broke off. But I guess that came later.

Riding to dancing? I can see that:

 

I think I got all of his lactic acid! Plus my own.

 

Running, throwing, jumping in various forms. Pretty amazing to have the technique to do them all reasonably well. However, I wouldn't call that ten sports. Furthermore, I don't know a decathlete who has been at the top for 25 years. Finally, Caitlyn Jenner was once called the World's Greatest Athlete, so...

 

You can debate what is a sport all you want Eg. Nascar, badminton. Each event requires incredible amounts of training and dedication. And there is a reason nobody can stay at their top of their game for 25 years because the sport is just too hard on the body. Look at football or basketball you're about over the hill when your 35 or so.

 

Athleticism, in my book, is best exemplified by gymnasts. Any other art, discipline, or sport trades physical athleticism for something more on the mental fitness side. When you train for these other disciplines, whether it be martial arts, mtn biking, or surfing, you have to deal with processing more sensory data that comes from *outside your body*.

A martial artist's spatial awareness, knowing where he is and his own condition, the location and condition of his opponent(s), where there might be environmental (dis)advantages (ex. bright lights, sound, outsiders/referee, the edge of the footing), is data flow that's being continually processed subconsciously and used to aid in the martial artist's physical prowess. The challenge of processing all this, once you understand the nuances of how they factor in, is one reason why one might consider a martial artist to be a great "athlete", going by the values some people have brought up in this thread. The same can be said for feeling the waves, the season, the local weather activity, the tide or moon phase, how the board reacts, the humidity levels, tackiness/draginess of certain spots on the board that has wax or mold on it... or with mountain bikers regarding how their equipment feels, how the track has changed, and how riding companions are handling things. Or how about Houdini, who trained his body to do all his feats? Is that not similar?

The definition of what makes an athlete aside, I find that the pursuit of attaining some sort of temporary power to be boggling. It can make for an interesting story, academically, one that is inspirational, but I personally don't give the act/pursuit much value, knowing that it is merely temporary and can be very time consuming. This value that everyone else gives it, greatness, is an illusion, that is essentially what makes up our culture. Think about it--why's gold so valuable when it isn't really used for anything really useful? The values of these things are made up by people. The demand for it is what keeps its value up. If someone discovered a way to transmute gold from more common materials, what then? This brings me to drugs, bionics and other things that can augment a person's athleticism/physical ability. You'd have some that will embrace augmentation, and others that want to protect the value of athleticism. The protectors often will fight to protect this "arbitrary value"... look at the wars over gold, wars over things said in God's name, etc. I'd like to believe we can be above this.

You rent your fitness and pay dearly with time. Life is short. Your experience and your story, what of it? These inspirational figures have spent a very large portion of the life to reach the point of greatness. The method of progression that they took showed much determination and other virtuous traits people would like to have. Someone who attained top tier physical capability in a short amount of time through augmentation, are not as respectable as the great ones, right? What if they showed the same virtuous traits, just cutting out the "grinding" time it took to train progressively? Do we have the right to judge and influence the value of this all? What if music lovers were forced to learn to play an instrument, in order to play our own music, to enjoy the music we love so much, rather than pay for it or use all these electronics that can interpret sheet music or midi? This opens up a big can of worms in morality, what's right and wrong, subjective opinion, and trying to judge it all.

With all this in mind, I'd like to question, how does any of this relate to the well being of our own lives and future generations? I'm trying hard to seek the virtue in current culture and I'm struggling find enough positives, to not be outweighed by the negatives. I am convinced that things need to change, that allows progression to go well beyond known limits, without these culture clashes. Any biters? Would it be too much to suggest that we're being held back by petty interests?

*sorry in advance if trying to bring reality back into perspective upsets people, such as those seeking to escape it. I also apologize if this happens to come out with a condescending tone... I'm not good with crafting rhetoric.

 

Now THAT"S the Varaxis we know and love!

Very deep - and straight to the core of values, worth and existential angst. A wonderful collision of the philosophies of Realism (Empirical, measurable tests of truth) and Existentialism - (completely internal tests of the good, the true and the beautiful).
I agree with you about gymnasts to some extent. Pure athleticism and grace. Then performing under the pressure and distraction of competition adds the mind-over-matter element that separates us as humans.

However, I am a sucker for those who can apply that same raw athleticism and competitive brain to a different environment or task. The ballet of a beautiful football reception, or a large, menacing wave well caught and tamed with power, grace and the concentration of a Ninja.

 

What makes a "great" or "greatest" athlete will always, and always should be subjective.

I also think it is important to define "athlete". My personal definition of a sport (personal) is a physical activity that has an increased risk to life or health. By my definition, golf is not a sport as you are not increasing your odds of getting injured by playing. Same as playing video games (which is a modern "sport"). While I see the skill involved in both, and don't feel superior to anyone who can collect 6+ figure by playing golf or video games (seriously, nothing against it), it doesn't meet my definition of sport. And while I find football to be silly, it is a sport. Of course, that increased risk is also subjective. But if you think about engaging in an activity and you have to weigh the risks to you physically, then it is probably a sport. No one says "Nah, I'm not interested in golf, I can't afford to miss work from an injury". On the other hand, I can't go a day at work without someone making a comment about getting hurt on my bike, or people questioning ruining my body through running (which is a myth).

Then you have the subcategory of extreme sports. More loosely defined (personally) as a sport with an exceedingly high risk to life or health. Sure, you can injure yourself swimming, and if done alone really risk drowning. I would say that "typical" surfing (normal conditions) is more dangerous then swimming, but still just a sport. Now when you start getting into swimming the English channel unsupported, or big wave surfing where you need a jetski to get out there, now it is extreme.

So, the easy test. If you tell someone you engage in an activity:
"Oh, that's pretty cool. Is that fun?" - game
"Oh, wow, aren't you afraid of getting hurt?" - sport
"Holy Sh!t that's dangerous, you're nuts!" - extreme sport

I don't do any extreme sports, by my definition (people think I am nuts for running/riding ultra distance, but not due to risk of injury).

It is all related to our nature to survive. We left Africa to find better conditions, we explored. We still explore today in the deepest oceans and space. And with that need to survive, war. The earliest sporting games were both practice, and a show of strength for combat. The earliest Greek games, a lot of the activities which are still played today in the Olympics, are all related to combat. The hammer and javelin throw, the fastest runners, the best shooters (bow and the modern gun), the best fighters, all training for combat against an enemy.

Our modern sports and athleticism are only an extension of our need to survive. There is a reason we all desire to be like the "greatest" athletes; they get the best choice for a mate and the best conditions (money) to survive.

While I don't consider longevity in a sport to define the sport, it is roughly true that a sport is usually rough on the body. Valentino Rossi in MotoGP is an oddity in that sport for his longevity, still getting top results (and certainly top pay) when most would have retired at a low point. Those guys train non stop, always working out and riding motorcycles.

I don't consider road biking particularly skillful (even though I do a ton of it and love it). Any idiot can ride and survive with minimal skills, and those skills won't translate to anything else. On the other hand, we have seen countless people go inbetween other sports (MTB, MX, motorcycle road racing, BMX, etc) and be as, or nearly as successful in those sports. I'm not saying that if you put a 60 year old Tinker into a different sport that he would be a new successful pro. But I am certain that at a younger age he could have gone into something else and done well.

For the record, even though he embarresses me with his ability every time I race him, I don't consider Tinker to be a "greatest". Absolutely amazing for sure, especially given his longevity, but not the greatest.

 

Well-stated and much agreement up to this point: Yes, "any idiot can ride," and many do, but road biking fast and in a group, riding on a wheel, being efficient in a peloton (and even more so in an echelon), dominating a field sprint, cornering fast, descending fast, riding skillfully in traffic.. the list goes on.

There was a time when being a Tour de France winner was considered one of the greatest achievements in sports (and athleticism). Especially multiple times. I'd still agree with that, despite the doping issues. And of Tour winners, Eddie Merckx was often considered the greatest of all.

PS: Wait, were you trolling?