Tires for "epic's" ?

Discussion in 'Tires' started by dustyyoungblood, Mar 19, 2017.


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  1. What size\type of tires do you guys run on these really long massive vertical rides in the Santa Ana's?


    I put 2.4" Onza IBEX tires on my Foes. They crush everything I have thrown at them. I am 100% happy with the perfirmce and properties of the rubber in every way. For reference they are every similar to maxis high rollers in tread design. But center knobs less tall.

    Historically I would have put one size narrower on the rear(in 07' trail bike terms that would have been a 26" 2.3f 2.1r), but since my foes is a 29f/27.5r I opted to run the same size given the front wheel already has more rubber than the rear. And it feels good like this :)

    But.... I am trying to step up my game into some +25mi +3,000' loops. Maybe I have to much tire to lug up them hill?
     
  2. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower
    You can't use me as an example....I can run tires with minimal tread front and rear on the SS.

    That being said, these are my go to tires.....

    Rear:
    2.2 Ikon
    2.2 Ardent Race

    Front:
    2.35 Ikon
    2.35 Ardent Race
    2.25 Ardent
    2.4 Ardent

    See the pattern. I like fast rolling, high volume tires. All the above tires have had no problems navigating Trabuco, Holy Jim, Troy Lee Trails, San Juan, Joplin, Eagle, Motorway as well as the sharp and chunky rocks on Main Divide.

    About the most aggressive I'll go with a front tire is a 2.3 High Roller.

    To achieve big elevation, usually requires bigger miles.....so dragging a pair of 2.5 Minions is just crazy.

    I have gone lighter and skinnier in the past with tires that were questionable for the conditions out there....

    2.1 Geax Mezcal
    2.0 Bontrager XR-2
    2.1 Maxxis Aspen
    2.0 WTB Nine Line
    2.2 Racing Ralph
    2.1 Small Block 8

    Really like the 2.2 Vitoria Saguaro and 2.1 WTB Nano....but have only run the non tubeless versions since the the TNT/TCS versions don't play well with Stan's rims.
     
    Danmtchl, Faust29, Mikie and 2 others like this.
  3. mike

    mike iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    HT, FS
    Dust, I've landed on the best combo yet for my preferences (29er): F: DHF 2.3 with EXO/Maxx Speed compound, R: Ardent Race 2.35 with EXO/Maxx Speed compound. Minimal compromises in DH/tech performance compared to knobb meats F/R.

    As a lighter setup, I could see going all mtbikej and running that 2.35 Ardent Race in front and using a AR 2.2 in back. For as light and fast-rolling as they are, the grip and longevity (MaxxSpeed compound) is damn impressive.
     
  4. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    Giant XTC with pedals
    I've got Maxxis Ardent 2.25 set up tubeless both front and rear, and they have served me well. I'm still on my first set of them and they've handled Motorway, Holy Jim, Main Divide, MTT, and others without issue. Right good tires, and I got them on sale too.:thumbsup:
     
    Danmtchl, Faust29, mike and 1 other person like this.
  5. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Moved to theTire Forum to make it easy to find later.

    Admittedly, I agree with the gear(less)heads above. I run tubeless Minions DHF and DHRII's and they are heavy as hail.... Not the best choice for the big miles, although I have used them repeatable now for Kokopelli. That's 150 miles with 15,000 feet of elevation gain....
     
  6. UPSed

    UPSed iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Simi Valley
    Name:
    Ed
    Current Bike:
    Niner Jet 9 RDO
    I'm with the run what you brung crowd. Granted I could probably climb a little faster with a lighter wheel and tire combo it's just not a big concern to me. I'm running a Maxxis Minion DHF on the front and a Rekon on the rear. Both 2.8. A quick calculation says I have about 8.8 pounds of rolling Mass! That's over two pounds of what I had on my 29er. Maybe I should rethink this?
     
    Danmtchl, Mikie, Fueledbyex8 and 4 others like this.
  7. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.
    Setting up a bike for long miles means that you'll compromise somewhere. Do you want to compromise going uphill or downhill? Yesterday ended up being 72 miles of mixed terrain. We ran on pavement, fire road, single track, rocky creek beds, and single track that looked like it was cut last Tuesday. Throw in a couple knee deep water crossings that tried to wash us downstream, and we saw just about everything... All on 2.0 skinny tires.

    Were they sketchy on the loose stuff, or on the trail that was just cut? Absolutely! But that's part of the fun in doing the long miles.

    In the Santa Anas I have a few tires that I normally run in the rear, all in 2.2ish sizes: Ikon, X-King, Race King, and most recently, the Racing Ralph at only 600 grams. In the front, it's been a 2.35 Racing Ralph at 700 grams since October. Up until yesterday's ride, it had been on the front for a couple of races in Temecula, Palm Canyon, about 20 trips down Motorway, a couple Trabuco runs, a couple Holy Jim runs, and a few luge trips. I'll never be the fastest going downhill, but that's more a limitation of my internal speedometer than the limitations of the tires. I really can't see myself doing a 50+ miler dragging around more tire.


    Edit: The one time this year I got nervous and ran a bigger tire up front was for the Cannell Plunge. That was one chunky ride, and the Mountain King 2.4 up front was the right call. I still ran something skinny in back, though... It might have been an X-King.
     
    Danmtchl, Mikie, mike and 5 others like this.
  8. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Well, on the front I run a ...

    Wait wait wait. Who am I kidding? An epic for me is 3500' of climbing. :oops:
     
  9. Danmtchl

    Danmtchl iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Bakersfield
    Name:
    Dan
    Current Bike:
    2020 Trek Fuel EX 9.7
    I have used the 27.5 x 2.35 Maxxis Agressor for almost a year now. Great knobs and wear. I use the EXO sidewall and run it tubeless.
     
  10. MattB

    MattB Member

    Name:
    Matt B
    I haven't done the crazy epic Santa Ana distances and climbing of others, but I've stretched myself to 30 mile/5-6,000' rides on my set-up.

    Within reason, I think you'll get used to whatever tire combo you run as you start putting in more miles and elevation. I have more of an XC/semi-reformed weight weenie background, so I was always reluctant to add weight in my tires. Then I started having fun trying to improve on more technical downhills and didn't feel that confident with traction, so when tires wore out I went a little heavier. Right away, I felt more confident and was having more fun ... and after a couple of rides, I didn't notice the extra 1/4+ pound I had added ... my legs got used to it.

    I used to run a 29"x 2.2" Nobby Nic up front and a Ground Control in the back at about 700g each. I didn't like the traction of the Nobby Nic (old version), so I went to up to the Hans Dampf 2.35" up front at about 875g, and a Bontrager Xr2 2.35" in the back at 675g. The trade-off of a little extra weight for a lot more confidence was well worth it. I like the combination of small knobs and wide footprint of the Bontrager in the back, and I've been happy with the HD up front compared to the more XC tires I was used to. It seemed like a good compromise between the 2.2 Ikons of my hardtail and the more downhill oriented tires that a lot of people run.

    I have to say that after hearing so many great things about the Minions, I am tempted to try the DHF in front and the SS in the back and see if the benefits outweigh the weight I would add. Since it's my full suspension bike and I'm not racing it, I think they will. And I think I'll be able to get used to them to keep doing 30/5,000 rides in the Santa Ana's (and maybe more). I don't think I have the skills to ride something lighter/narrower on the way down Joplin, Motorway, Yeager, etc., and those are the rewards I enjoy after all that climbing.
     
    mike, mtnbikej, Danmtchl and 3 others like this.
  11. Some really good info being dropped here. Thanks to all who are posting. I am learning

    Back in the day, I would not even think of running anything bigger than 2.2 on the rear for a 26" trail bike. And often I would run a 2.1" small block eight, a cross mark, or EVEN a k-rad. There is a time and a place for everything :). Getting loose is fun. But in current times I see trail bikes with 2.5" minnions and it blows my mind, because I am old and 2.5" tires are for full blown DH bikes. I think is awesome that we can run serious tires on trail bikes now, but has it gone to far? Can I deal with less tire? Or stay pinned and hook up?
     
    mike, MattB and mtnbikej like this.
  12. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    I just cant deal with skinny and/or semislick tires. Todays 2.3-2.6 tires are significantly lighter than back in the day, so I run 2.3 spec butcher control and/or 2.3 dhr 2's on my "climbing" bike. Right now theres a 2.5 dhf on front, Its "only" 924 grams tubeless, not much heavier than the 2.3 butcher thats usually there, and MUCH bigger and grippier. Might leave it on for my next SA "epic". I do like the bigger front tire around Laguna. My slightly longer travel bike has a butcher 2.6 semi-plus on the front (again not super heavy by my standards) and an e13 trs 2.35 on the back, but i just use that bike for shorter chunky rides or shuttling Chiquito :). Maybe it all seems like overkill but I need all the help from my bike I can get. My climbing pace is slow, light tire or not (to a point) and i dont care about winning speed records.
     
  13. evdog

    evdog iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    I run 2.35 DHF up front and a High Roller II on the back. This has been a solid combo for most conditions and rides.
     
  14. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower

    It's not just the weight...big knobby tires tend to roll slower. When you are rolling 60-80 miles/10k'.....the last thing you want is to feel like you dragging a set of mudders up the hill.
     
  15. HBkites

    HBkites Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Huntington Beach
    Name:
    Sharone
    Current Bike:
    Why S7, Revel Rascal, Spark RC
    Currently, I'm running Ikon 2.2 front and rear.
    This tire combo didn't work well in the send in Hellfire. hopefully the rain this week will pack down the new sand on Blackstar.
    I used the same combo in True Grit, and I had no issue with it.

    Before the Ikons I had combos of XR1 (R) and XR2 (F) that I liked a lot, then I run into some issues of front tires washing out on me in loose conditions.
    It got so bad that at one race I had 4 incidents of rider/bike separation (not a real crash but close).
    my "solution" was to switch the front to Ardent 2.4. It gave me more traction, but I felt like was riding a "monster truck".

    At that point, I decided to focus on my off camber turning technic. An advice for a "coach" pointed me in the right direction.

    Stand up while turning (sitting puts too much pressure on the back tire).
    Rotate the outside pedal down with most of the weight on it.
    Straighten your Inside elbow. Use your upper body weight pushes down on it.
    Move your hip to the outside of the saddle (extreme measure)
    Lean the bike while keeping your upper body vertical.
    All these changes help engage the side knobs of the tires (especially the front one) and it gave me tons of confidence.


    Like I said, now I'm back on skinny 2.2, with no real issues.


    Bottom line: Improving turning technic will make "fast tires" turn with confidence.
     
  16. mike

    mike iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    HT, FS
    :thumbsup:

    One can tick off the standard circuits with pretty much any weighty and slow tires – it'll just take a little more work to get those rides feeling like no prob. Some mutants rock those tires all week long.

    Going beyond the standards – enchainments and other devious creations – I think is where lighter tires come into play. I rode the Sh!t out of big knobbies all over the Santa Anas before trimming back. This was a good workout and good to get confident with technique. Then it was not a huge leap to do bigger rides with a little less aggro rubber.
     
  17. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    True...I should've added my idea of an epic is 12-20 miles/2400-4000. Maybe this thread is out of my league
     
  18. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    I learned all of those same things over several sessions of coaching, and they work, but for me, all I have to do is visualize the inner side knobs like the edge of a ski or snowboard. Weighting them is then second nature. Try it if you have refined ski/snowboard technique. Don't if you don't carve your snow turns or have no idea what I'm talking about.

    Oh, and back to the thread - I still have no business providing tire advice for epic rides, so I will remain silent on that matter.
     
    Faust29, Danmtchl, HBkites and 3 others like this.
  19. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    Giant XTC with pedals
    Or if you've ever water skied - especially single ski. Same concept, same warning. :cool:
     
    Faust29 and Danmtchl like this.
  20. I studied some more tires at the path today. New Michelin models=cool
    Wondering what a tire poll at VC/CC would show?
     
  21. Knob spacing and rubber compounds contribute to!!!
    I have tested this while watching my riding partners coast and pull away from me with their smaller/harder tires on flat/gentle slope sections while I am pedaling to keep up.
     
    Faust29, Danmtchl, mike and 3 others like this.
  22. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower
    That most people will run a faster rolling tire. VQ/CC more time is made/lost on the climbs. Descending MW/HJ/Trabuco does not require big knobby meats.
     
    kioti, Faust29, Danmtchl and 2 others like this.
  23. Opening this post, I was expecting to get a list of responses that detailed a bunch of paper thin XC world cup tires to compensate for the long days. Stuff I would shred in 2 weeks and cause me a ton of braking, and traction issues, AND SPILLS.

    Instead, it's a mixed bag. That's interesting and means I got more work to do. I think I might bump done a tire size and see how it goes.
     
  24. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower
    I'm sure some people are running super thin sidewall tires....but if you spend enough time in the Santa Ana's you will learn quickly that race tires don't last if run as everyday tires.

    With today's tires having reinforced sidewalls without adding a bunch of weight, it just doesn't make sense to push your luck out there.

    I imagine there are places that you could get away with it,

    I just don't wanna cut a sidewall at the base of Indian Truck Trail 40 miles into a 70 mile ride.
     
    kioti, mike, herzalot and 5 others like this.
  25. Danmtchl

    Danmtchl iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Bakersfield
    Name:
    Dan
    Current Bike:
    2020 Trek Fuel EX 9.7
    I was reading about the new Michelins myself and want to try the Wild AM.
     
    mike likes this.
  26. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.
    Even with three of the best descents around (Motorway, HJ and Trabuco), I'm gearing for the climbs... It will be a 2.25 Racing Ralph with Snakeskin in the rear (600 grams) and either a 2.25 Ralph in the front, or maybe the 2.35 (700 grams) that I've been running for the last 6 months.

    I just found another Ralph with Snakeskin for $61... That puts it in Ikon price range, and I prefer the grip of the RR. Score! :thumbsup:
     
  27. I think I can resolve my questions with some math.
    My Onza IBEX 2.4" (WHICH ARE FREAKING RULING AND I LOVE) are 960g F, and 890g R
    The lightest tires I would considering going to are some of the ones mentioned above or some of he 2.25" Onza's, so 600g to 770g, so I can save approx 450 grams total.

    will a near 1 pound savings in tire give me an advantage in cleaning a couple steep climbs I currently need a rest or walk to make?
    will a near 1 pound savings in tire keep me fresher past hour 2 allowing me to complete that last climb without bonking?
     
    mike, Faust29 and Danmtchl like this.
  28. knucklebuster

    knucklebuster Well-Known Member

    Location:
    34.2295° N, 117.2257° W
    Name:
    Dave
    Current Bike:
    Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail
    Counterpoint, if saving the pound to make it easier to get up the hill, will that cause you to crash and burn on a steep loose decent for lack of traction, or poke a hole in the tread or sidewall? Of course you first have to get up there to then enjoy the DHs, but will that compromise your fun on the DH?

    A year or two ago I tried a different rear tire, partly weight and partly faster rolling. Poked a hole in the middle of the tread on the downhill, then pinched a tube. I was exhausted from pulling the tire off and on...
     
    kioti, mike, MattB and 5 others like this.
  29. I am on a 150mm travel bike and pushing my luck DH always. I am hard wired for that. Maybe I get 2.5" tires with wire beads and get -30pounds of liposuction instead. Thanks for your input
     
    kioti, mike, MattB and 5 others like this.
  30. StrandLeper

    StrandLeper Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Timothy M. Ryan
    Current Bike:
    SC Bronson 1x/Pivot 429 1x xtr
    I like the kind with the big knobs.
     
    DangerDirtyD, Oaken, kioti and 7 others like this.
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