The Automobile Thread

My experience at the higher end dealers has been very good. BMW, Lexus, pleasant and fair, and subaru, No BS and very pleasant.

At the Douglas nissan specifically, I felt like a fish that swam into a shark tank. Truly an extreemly poor experience. At least I didn't get the ID theft out of it.
https://abc7.com/archive/6415002/

But now with the internet and more transparent pricing its become a better experience over all. The customer has more info than ever and if prepared a quick and somewhat pleasant experience.

Dealers have earned the reputation they have just like contractors. Most are good, but the few bad ones leave a lasting and poor taste that colors the industry. So moral of this? Be prepared, and do not assume they're honest and fair.

 

Yeah, most of my car buying since 2010 has been Subaru and Audi, and all were pleasant. My Tacoma was as close as I've come to a bad experience, but it was tolerable.

Totally agree re: transparency and informed customers. I'll take a customer who knows what the margins are, and what is realistic all day long. Those are easy conversations. The ones that come in requesting outlandish deals as a starting point, or demanding "what's your best price" with no willingness to engage in civil conversation rarely end up in a good deal for the customer, and just make things unnecessarily contentious.

 

Honestly, it's the extended packages they offer at the end that get most people. e.g. extended warranties that you weave into the payments but don't need for 3-5 years down the road.

 

Voodoos simple car buying formula...
Drive your trusty old truck for ever + keep your wife in a half way decent car = more bikes for Voodoo.

 

The guy at Simpson Chevrolet put a sheet of paper in front of me and told me to sign. It didn’t have the price on it, just a monthly payment that amounted to $3500 over the price we had agreed to online.

I’m not apologizing for my subsequent saltiness. How many non-English speaking grandmas buying their first new car has this guy swindled? calling him a low life is too nice.

 

Some salesmen crack me up.
Me: I'd like to pay X amount for your vehicle.
Salesman: How much can you afford per month?
Me: However much X amount is divided by 60.
Salesman: I'll see what I can do.

 

That's a good start!

 

No down payment or trade in?

 

F&I guys will be the first up against the wall when I become overlord.

 

In the past I've negotiated the price before I brought up a trade in. I didn't want my trade in to influence the price of the vehicle. My past several vehicles though I've just used Costco's Auto Program. In and out in 45 minutes. Preset prices means no haggling. And I think you actually get the best deal that way. Yeah the finance guy tries to sell you a million warranties but I just tell them no up front.

 

Tesla and Rivian’s online only, no dealer, just-click-buy setup is a big part of their plan to rule the luxury market. Of course, it only works on EVs that (hopefully) don’t get any maintenance.

As much as I like my Bolt, and I prefer buying from an established automaker, not having to work with a dealer sounds great. The new Hummer EV would be competitive if it didn’t mean time in the F&I chair at Joe’s Hyundai-Mitsubishi-GMC of Moreno Valley.

 

Speaking of EVs, I'm starting to see more and more of the new Mustangs, they look great. I'm still salty about the name appropriation for them, but the basic vehicle looks pretty good. I would really like to have an 80% sized one for myself. They're still a bit big for single person commuter car.

 

If you hold cars long enough, the dealers don’t want them...and we’ve taken the 0% apr thing on cars we could write a check for. We usually pay off in ~2 years, but I like to channel my inner Scrooge McDuck sometimes, and play in my ball pit of gold doubloons.

 

I saw one at the local fast charger getting towed yesterday. Hopefully he was getting towed TO the charger based on his own bad decision making..

 

I’m not sure Tesla’s licensing policies are a “scam.” They’re definitely new and different, and I can see how they might surprise folks and cause ill will. But the crappy build quality is enough to keep me away.

it’s remarkable how crappy build quality is a feature in the luxury market.

 

Yeah, Ford isn't known for their first year build quality or reliability. Seems like they're in the mode of rushing half baked product to the market.

 

There is a Tesla maintenance center - not sure about sales, haven't stopped in - on Auto Center Drive in Buena Park, adjacent to the 5. Between Stanton Ave & Dale St.

 

Same here. There was a Mach-E behind me in town today. Motortrend says it's nice but that it does not compare to the Tesla.

 

The old Laguna Bch movie theater across from Main Beach is being renovated into a Rivian "experience center"
https://www.lagunabeachindy.com/rivian-renovate-downtown-theater/

 

That front end is fugly. Straight up non-starter for me. I want my trucks to look like truck....tough. Not like some leftover from the Tron movie set.

 

I worked there as a kid. There's a painted canvas behind one of the curtained walls that we were always scheming to steal because we thought it was worth $20k. No idea where we came up with that.

 

I listened to the section on Tesla, and I'm not sure I understood what points he was trying to make. Take deliveries from a Tesla showroom? Is the guy kidding me? One of the huge advantages of the Tesla model is they don't have dealerships, and they don't have parking lots full of cars. They produce to order, and don't have cars sitting around to be shipped from one showroom to another... despite what the video guy says. The price goes up and down based on numerous things over time so that you might pay a different price one month versus the next... and that is unique to Tesla? You have a feature in one model... and then several months later it is changed or no longer available? Again... how is this unique to Tesla?

The one complaint I would have about Tesla is the build quality was lower than my wife's previous Lexus LS... for a car that cost about the same out the door. But the performance is 10x better. An AWD sedan that accelerates from 0-60 in 3 seconds? But you have to do your own calculations in terms of how much you save on gas and maintenance. In our case, our electricity was dirt cheap, and in California gas is expensive. I keep all the maintenance records, so I know how much the Lexus cost to drive for 100,000 miles.

At the end of the day, you are kinda buying into an idea or a lifestyle. Never having to pull into a gas station is a strange experience. As is having your car send you emails... or download a new user interface for holidays... or send you software updates that improves your car's performance. And the big point the guy in the video missed - Tesla publishes their prices and they are the same nationally. Try to get a national price out of ANY gas car manufacturer and they can't do it - because of their dealer agreement. They publish a MSRP... but it is a joke price that no one ever pays. And as others have pointed out, dealerships break even on car sales, and make all their money in service. How will they survive when there is no service? How will gas stations survive when no one buys gas?

 

The beef in the video that I think is valid is the software piece. They’re trying to do what Microsoft wants with the annual Office subscription. Just looking for ways to take money out of my pocket multiple times instead of once.

As for gas stations, gas is a loss leader to get you in to buy Skoal Bandits and lotto scratchers. 40 years from now, when everyone switches to EV, they’ll just put in a couple fast chargers and maybe sell payday loans and tattoos while you wait.

 

With the current state of the grid and the possibility of rolling power blackouts here in Calif, and the fact that in the near future no gas cars will be sold here, what are they doing to ensure the stable supply of electricity once a few million eCars are plugged in. Unless something drastic happens it would be safe to assume the situation will get worse for the general population.

 

EVs provide a nice reliable daily pull on the grid. It’s the kind of thing that Edison can take to the bank. They get in trouble on random heat wave days—your AC pulls as much power as a car, but the AC pulls hardest during the day, and EVs charge from midnight to 6am typically.

They can plan months to years ahead for EVs. They might get a couple days’ notice of a heat wave.

 

Weird times in the car biz as the shortage of cars looms heavy. Had a frazzled couple come in on Saturday, and watched them sigh in relief when I told them that we aren't marking up our prices. They're expecting a baby any day, need a car, and were told everywhere they went that even the most pedestrian cars are being marked well above sticker. They happily bought a Q5 at MSRP as it was cheaper than the Rav4 marked up $15K over sticker that they originally wanted. That was the second time this weekend that I heard of that same mark up on Rav4s. I did a quick search on cars.com for preowned Tacomas of the same year/trim/mileage as mine and virtually all were listed above what I paid for mine new. Cash out and feel smug that I enjoyed a Tacoma for 3 years for free? The thought is there.