Sustainable Trails Coalition

Discussion in 'Trail Advocacy' started by Mikie, Oct 9, 2018.

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Should imtbtrails support and endorse the Sustainable Trails Coalition?

  1. Yes, I am for imtbtrails supporting this Organization.

  2. No, I am not in favor of imtbtrails supporting this Organization.

  3. I'm on the fence with STC and will explain in this forum thread.

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Lebec, California
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Yeti ASR5c, SC Hightower
    STC.Logo.png
    With IMBA in my opinion going down in Dildo Flames, I'm curious how imtbtrails folks feel about Sustainable Trails Coalition (STC).

    http://www.sustainabletrailscoalition.org/

    My first impression is they are quite a bit more aggressive in the direction I think Mountain Biking should be going. Have a clear picture on eBikes, and focused on the restoration of bicycles in Wilderness that makes sense, not in Wilderness areas that do not make sense, to be clear.

    I believe they also have a different incorporation as a non-profit and registered with the IRS as a 501(c)(4). It means your donations are not tax deductible but I think that strategizes them to be able to do things that IMBA can not.

    Please vote. If you don't know which way to vote, check them out at the link above and hear what others have to say on the site, then vote.

    Thanks!
    Mikie
    imtbtrails
     
    Cyclotourist and Faust29 like this.
  2. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Crescenta Valley
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Snake"
    Current Bike:
    Salsa/Trek/Kona
    I read through the STC website. Seems like a no brainer decision to support their cause to me, from a mountain biker's POV. .
     
    Faust29, Mikie and mtbMike like this.
  3. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    I don't know enough about them to have an opinion at this juncture.
     
    mtnbikej, Faust29 and Mikie like this.
  4. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    '15 Intense Tracer 275c DVOish
    While I support their efforts to educate all about the intention of the Wilderness Act (not meant to ban mechanical travel, just motorized), I worry about throwing all of us behind their name without knowing more. I have seen the word "sustainable" kicked around a lot in the trail building and trail maintenance circles, and embraced by IMBA. What that seems to mean is homogenized, low gradient "flow" trails, which are delightful for newbs, families and even experts (at times), but should not be the extent of the trails available, built or maintained.

    I want to know if they are actively opposed to steep, difficult trails and would work to close such trails in the name of sustainability. I may just ask them that question.

    Or I may just move to Canada where they get it... And they don't shoot each other...at least, not on purpose.
     
    Cyclotourist, kioti, scan and 5 others like this.
  5. LLPoolJ

    LLPoolJ iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Moreno Valley
    Name:
    James Johnson
    Current Bike:
    Specy Epic and Stumpy
    There are enough battles to fight with existing trails, Wilderness should be on the back burner along with E bikes. Not interested in a debate, thanks.
     
  6. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    herzalot and Mikie like this.
  7. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    '15 Intense Tracer 275c DVOish
    I don't think we can afford to sit on our hands regarding Wilderness. It's one thing if the existing Wilderness designations were stagnant, but there is a massive push to hang Wilderness designation - including the apparently-misinterpreted bicycle ban - on hundreds of thousands of acres. We need advocacy to prevent further bicycle bans, and to turn back some of the recently implemented bans in ID and MT.
     
  8. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    We would do well to reverse the National Monument designation on the San Gabriels, as a start.
     
    Rumpled and Mikie like this.
  9. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    '15 Intense Tracer 275c DVOish
    Derkderkall, MrGreedom and Mikie like this.
  10. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    Rate vs raw numbers. Comparative population sizes....etc. It's really not all that different.
     
    Mikie likes this.
  11. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    '15 Intense Tracer 275c DVOish
    Uh huh. OK. You bet. :thumbsup:
     
    Mikie likes this.
  12. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    IMBA failed us on this issue. STC may be able to make something happen, but it really comes down to being as passionate, in as large a number, as the opposition. There are plenty of people out there who want to keep us out. If we don't raise our noise level and don't let our representatives know how we feel, then we have lost the battle before it is joined.

    It doesn't take long to let them know. You can even do it by email, or through their webpage. They make it easy. Do it.

    Or, conversely, accept that you are marginalized and ignored.
     
  13. BigTex

    BigTex Member

    Location:
    Ladera Ranch
    Name:
    Richard
    Current Bike:
    Pivot Les
    As Herzalot said, the Wilderness designation is a threat to existing trails. Ask mountain bikers in Idaho and elsewhere who have lost hundreds of miles of trails that they have ridden for years because it was changed to "Wilderness." In some cases, popular trails have been bisected because a tiny portion crosses an area that was re-designated as Wilderness. There's a reasonable argument to be made that we shouldn't all of a sudden have access to trails that have never seen bikes; there's also a very reasonable and, in my mind, stronger argument that trails that have long been ridden and likely maintained by mountain bikers should all of a sudden be off limits.
     
    Rumpled, MrGreedom, Mikie and 2 others like this.
  14. LLPoolJ

    LLPoolJ iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Moreno Valley
    Name:
    James Johnson
    Current Bike:
    Specy Epic and Stumpy
    Not interested in a debate my friends. I believe what I believe. Move along.
     
    MrGreedom, Mikie and DangerDirtyD like this.
  15. Redman

    Redman Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Cypress, Ca
    Name:
    Kevin
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Nomad CC 27.5
    how could you not support this??:whistling:
     
    herzalot, MrGreedom and Mikie like this.
  16. Derkderkall

    Derkderkall Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Covina
    Name:
    Derek Allison
    Current Bike:
    2012 Rockhopper 29
    I would have to sit and take a deeper look
     
  17. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    La Verne, CA
    Name:
    Dennis (AKA Dio)
    Current Bike:
    2013 Trek Slash 9 (26er)
    I enjoy Wilderness. But there is no longer any wildness on earth, defined as a landscape independent of humans. I appreciate the efforts of those who try to preserve. Also, I enjoy having a place to myself, but also with Wolfie, at night, under a super moon, thanks to a Wilderness designation that intends to keep bicycles away. If you build it, they will come, and that just crowds the place.
     
    Luis, mtnbikej, MrGreedom and 6 others like this.
  18. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Crescenta Valley
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Snake"
    Current Bike:
    Salsa/Trek/Kona
    Sounds like you are more likely to get caught in bed with Mother Nature than you are with your bike. :D
     
    kioti, MrGreedom, Mikie and 2 others like this.
  19. Cyclotourist

    Cyclotourist iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Redlands
    Name:
    David
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Chameleon
    I'm tentatively for supporting them, as long as this isn't a front for some Koch brothers/American Prosperity PAC anti-regulation shenanigans.
    If it is truly by mountain bikers, for mountain bikers, and not part of a wider anti-government movement, I am for it. The fact that McClintock's fingerprints are all over this gives me SERIOUS pause.

    Enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend:
    https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/summary?cid=N00006863&cycle=2016
     
    kioti, herzalot, Mikie and 2 others like this.
  20. littlewave

    littlewave Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Newport Beach
    Name:
    Brett
    Current Bike:
    Ibis Ripley LS
    http://www.sustainabletrailscoalition.org/about/#who-we-are

    My understanding was that he sponsored the bill STC was trying to get passed, not that he is behind the STC. Here's the text of bill H.R. 1349:

    "This bill amends the Wilderness Act to declare that provisions of such Act prohibiting the use of motorized vehicles, aircraft, or other forms of mechanical transport shall not prohibit the use of motorized wheelchairs, non-motorized wheelchairs, non-motorized bicycles, strollers, wheelbarrows, survey wheels, or game carts within any wilderness areas."

    http://www.sustainabletrailscoalition.org/resources/#faq
     
  21. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    La Verne, CA
    Name:
    Dennis (AKA Dio)
    Current Bike:
    2013 Trek Slash 9 (26er)
    In Mother Nature with my bike.
     
    Mikie likes this.
  22. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Crescenta Valley
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Snake"
    Current Bike:
    Salsa/Trek/Kona
    Sneaky... ;)
     
    Mikie and DangerDirtyD like this.
  23. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    '15 Intense Tracer 275c DVOish
    A closed mind is an awesome thing!

    I would hope we would all be open to consider action to help us gain or keep access to trails. @Mikie asked us if we think IMTBTrails should officially endorse an organization who appears to be focused on doing just that. I feel somewhat responsible to help Mikie answer the question through research, further questioning or healthy debate. Seems more important than chain lube!
     
    LLPoolJ likes this.
  24. evdog

    evdog Well-Known Member

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    McClintock isn't behind STC, but he is one of only a few congressmen willing to support the STC bill. What his intentions are in providing that support is another matter. At the end of the day he didn't try to change the text of the bill to something other than what STC proposed.

    SDMBA had Ted Stroll come to one of its monthly advocacy meetings last year and we got to meet him and talk to him. He is a mountain biker and seems very genuine. STC is basically him and a few other key volunteers. Hearing him talk, he wants nothing more than what the bill proposes - that there no longer be a blanket ban on bikes (and mechanical tools ie chainsaws) in wilderness and that local land managers have the ability to decide what trails are suitable for inclusion of bikes. Seems to have a very common sense and no nonsense approach, and is very passionate about this.

    I don't think STC takes any position on the types of trail that might be open to bikes - they are more concerned that the trails open to bikes make sense to MTB use. I think their position would be that trails which might be opened to bikes in Wilderness wouldn't need any work done at all, or minimal work. They also aren't advocating for construction of new trails, trail networks or bike parks in Wilderness. All they want is to remove the bike ban so MTBers can access trails that already exist, as they are now. Yes that makes it a very narrow scope, but an important one. They are not a trail organization, just an advocate for bike access.
     
    Luis, kioti, littlewave and 6 others like this.
  25. Cyclotourist

    Cyclotourist iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Redlands
    Name:
    David
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Chameleon
    Thank you both for the thoughtful replies. It is appreciated. Vote changed above!
     
    littlewave likes this.
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