Santiago Oaks Incident

Discussion in 'Trail Conditions' started by mtnbikej, Jun 19, 2019.



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  1. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J M
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower
    Got this from the good folks at Non dot:



    It has been brought to our attention, by the rangers of Santiago Oaks, that there has been a very unfortunately occurrence on the trails. A couple of mountain bikers going down Yucca Ridge came across a hiker and some words were exchanged that ended up turning into a fist fight! Yes, you read that correctly, a FIST FIGHT! Obviously, we don't have the entire conversation on tape, but that's not the point. The point is that the OC Parks trails are multi-use trails! I'm sure you've seen the signs... horses and hikers have the right away over mountain bikers no matter what! We've been hearing too many instances where mountain bikers are forgetting this piece of information.

    So... what can we do? First off, say hello to everyone you come across! If hikers only see mountain bikers speeding by them, of course there are going to be confrontations. Multi-use trails are for everyone... hikers, bikers, and equestrians. Be friendly out there!

    Second, slow up and communicate! Remember, there is a 10MPH speed limit in the parks. While it may not make sense to mountain bikers, this limit is put into place for the safety of all users. We need to be in control and able to stop at a moments notice. Slow up and communicate to other park users when you are passing them. Give compliments when you are passing them on a climb. Make sure the horses see you, stop as needed, and get off the bike if needed.

    Third, get involved! Get involved in your local trail advocacy group. (In Orange County there are SHARE Mountain Bike Club and Laguna Canyon Foundation). Do trail work. Organize clean up days. Coach the high school teams. Become an OC Parks volunteer!

    And lastly, spread the word! Confrontations like these do nothing good for our community. We know that none of our Non Dot community would do anything like this, so we need to be the good stewards in the community. Help people understand the rules of the parks. We've already lost our race series, and they are saying more changes are on the way. Let's help make these changes good for our community! If you'd like to email ranger Nick at Oaks to let him know you will ride in control and help encourage others, please do: Nicholas.Martinico@ocparks.com. If you would like to email a ranger in your local park to see what you can do to help, please contact us and we will get their email address for you.

    Thank you for listening and being good stewards on the trails. We look forward to seeing you out there!
     
  2. skyungjae

    skyungjae Member

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    Name:
    Kyung Jae
    Current Bike:
    2015 Santa Cruz Bronson C
    I'm surprised this is not ebike related. Folks... be nice.
     
  3. Redman

    Redman Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Cypress, Ca
    Name:
    Kevin
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Nomad CC 27.5
  4. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Crescenta Valley
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Ssnake"
    Current Bike:
    Vassago/Trek
    There always seems to be a rotten apple or two out there.

    Me, Im a flirt. Possibly too friendly when I encounter other trail users, specifically non-bikers. It’s actually interesting to me to get feedback from trail users who are not on a bike.
     
  5. Faust29

    Faust29 iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    Stef
    Current Bike:
    3 SC is now 2 SC.
    Hmmm... Updated packing list: spare tube, patch kit, tire plugs, extra chain links, multitool, brass knuckles, dry gloves, sunglasses, lip balm... :facepalm:
     
    kdiff, scan, Mikie and 11 others like this.
  6. Rumpled

    Rumpled Well-Known Member

    Location:
    OC
    Name:
    Jim Martin
    Current Bike:
    2018 Specialized Epic Carbon C
    There are jerks everywhere. Doesn't say who the initiator is.
    On a side note, I didn't realize that Non Dot had lost their races. What happened there?
     
    Pro_Leisure, Mikie, Danmtchl and 3 others like this.
  7. Redman

    Redman Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Cypress, Ca
    Name:
    Kevin
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Nomad CC 27.5
    I got cussed out by a fellow pedaler at the very bottom of Yucca last time out there. I just came down Cactus and was rolling on thru to go up Coachwhip. I even yelled out I was coming. As I started to climb up from the creek bed towards yucca/coachwhip intersection. A unaware rider was coming down full bore at me. He cussed me out cause he had trouble stopping in time to get out of the way. Got all mad at me cause he skidded off trail into the brush. I just told him to be aware and watch his speed as I continued on pedaling.
     
    Mikie, Danmtchl, herzalot and 10 others like this.
  8. mike

    mike iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    GG Smash
    Sorry, no like for that, J. :facepalm:

    But I can't say I'm surprised. One or two riders in OC have made me think they need a good talking to by hand. Hikers, never had a problem.
     
    Mikie, Danmtchl, herzalot and 7 others like this.
  9. Obsidian

    Obsidian Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Costa Mesa
    Name:
    Obsidian
    Current Bike:
    2017 Intense Tracer
    Who won the fight?

    Seriously though, I have seen jerk hikers and jerk mountain bikers. It is more about the individual than whether they are hiking or biking. Most hikers are cool, but there are those few who absolutely don't want us on the trails no matter what and they go out there with a bad attitude.
     
    kdiff, Mikie, Danmtchl and 7 others like this.
  10. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    Dang!

    In all my years of biking I have had trouble with one hiker.
    In all my years of hiking / trail running, I have had trouble with SEVERAL bikers.

    I always try to be a good bike advocate, particularly when I pass hiking groups. But at the end of the day... it is one reason I prefer to bike early in the morning. Can't have people problems if there aren't any people :)
     
    Lost Kiwi, Mikie, Danmtchl and 7 others like this.
  11. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J M
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower

    The hiker ended up getting the worse of it.
     
    Mikie, Danmtchl, Faust29 and 6 others like this.
  12. konakc

    konakc Well-Known Member

    Name:
    kc
    Ok folks .. the likes button doesnt mean that we like that the hiker got worst of it...
    We here often tap the like button when one if us get injured....
     
    Mikie, Danmtchl, BonsaiNut and 4 others like this.
  13. pachaven

    pachaven Member

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Mark
    Current Bike:
    A bunch of them!!!
    mtbbikej or the author of this posting,
    I have it on very good authority that the hiker charged and tackled the biker off his bike and the biker was only defending himself. From what I understand...the hiker was angry from a situation that had happened a few minutes prior to the fight and was taking it out on the biker.
    This posting has some good information but it makes it sound like the mountain bikers are at fault and are forgetting the rules of our multi use trails. And in this case, that's just wrong.
     
    MrGreedom, Mikie, Danmtchl and 12 others like this.
  14. konakc

    konakc Well-Known Member

    Name:
    kc
    Most of the people i encounter r happy to be outdoors...
    Bad apples even in washington orchard...
     
  15. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J M
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower

    You are correct....but it also sounds like you know who the offenders are???

    Yes, it sounds as though there was a whole lot of wrong from both sides....doesn't make either side right. I've heard the version from the hiker's side.

    At the end of the day, the hiker was the one that walked away bloodied and beaten.
     
    Mikie, herzalot, Faust29 and 7 others like this.
  16. pachaven

    pachaven Member

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Mark
    Current Bike:
    A bunch of them!!!
    The offender walked away bloodied and beaten as he should have. If you attack someone...you should have something to think about the next time you are unable to control yourself.
     
    OTHRider, MrGreedom, Mikie and 14 others like this.
  17. mtbMike

    mtbMike Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Oceanside
    Name:
    Mike
    Current Bike:
    Ibis Ripmo & Intense Primer
    10 mph? I'm going to guess all of you like regularly ride there are frequently going over 10 mph so as far as the Rangers and hikers are concerned, YOU are a bad apple and part of the problem as well.
     
    kdiff, da big hills, Mikie and 5 others like this.
  18. pachaven

    pachaven Member

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Mark
    Current Bike:
    A bunch of them!!!
    mtbbikej,
    I would love to hear what the hikers point of view was. When you say "I've heard the version from the hiker's side" did you speak with him?
     
  19. Makoto

    Makoto Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Name:
    Mike
    Not one to chime in often, but unfortunately, we as mountain bikers have a tarnished reputation (whether it be for legitimate reasons or not). My take away is the same as it has been for quite some time. As an ambassador for the sport of mountain biking, I make it a point to always greet other trail users with politeness, dignity and respect regardless if it is deserved or not. A few bad apples can really spoil our trail access so my actions seem like a simple/effective way to try to help our image as mountain bikers. My rant is complete. Carry on...
     
    OTHRider, no worries, Mikie and 5 others like this.
  20. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Crescenta Valley
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Ssnake"
    Current Bike:
    Vassago/Trek
    Is this place a part of OC parks or is it private owned?

    I am asking this because in LACO, the Parks trail speed limit is 15mph.
     
  21. Obsidian

    Obsidian Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Costa Mesa
    Name:
    Obsidian
    Current Bike:
    2017 Intense Tracer
    Agreed.
     
    Mikie, Faust29, MojoMTB and 2 others like this.
  22. mtbfan

    mtbfan Member

    Name:
    Sylvia
    Well, I normally don't take sides since I am a hiker and a mountainbiker, and I have been lucky to encounter nice people hiking and biking. However, I see that post was shared by Non Dot, who is all about putting on races, even in our local parks (Santiago Oaks). I am not a fan since I believe that this racing attitude and Strava points has taken the fun out of mountain biking, or at least my type of fun. If you participate in these races, you will have to train for them, of course, and that will be on days when the official race is not happening and you will clearly go faster than 10 mph, and the trails ridden for practice are those that hikers and also more casual riders share. The hiker may have been pissed at the biker, and the biker may have ridden too fast, but without knowing all the details, we should not make assumptions. My suggestion would be to conduct races only on actual race courses and take them out of the local parks or conservancies. On that note, I am a little upset that I can't ride without a docent on some of the Irvine Ranch trails to protect the habitat, yet 500 racers at one time are allowed to race these trails, clearly interfering with the otherwise considered nature habitat. Just saying and just ranting. I guess, money will always trump protecting wildlife and nature habitat.
     
    scan, Danimal, Mikie and 9 others like this.
  23. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J M
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower
    They don't do any racing anymore in the OC Parks. 2018 was the last year for races. They still hold clinics in IRP, but the parks don't allow the racing anymore. In their defense....good or bad, they do a lot of the trailwork out in the park.
     
    HBkites, bvader, Mikie and 6 others like this.
  24. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J M
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower

    I got the clifnotes version of it....apparently some of the info I got was redacted....or forgot to mention. Sounds like some of you guys were there and witnessed what ever happened....you'd know better than me.

    I'm not involved, I'm just passing the info along.

    Like @mtbMike said above....to the other trail users, we are the bad apples. Right or wrong, we have to go the extra mile be nice.
     
    bvader, Mikie, DangerDirtyD and 5 others like this.
  25. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    Well... when @Mikie updates his software to version 2.1, we will have the option to respond to posts with reactions other than "like".

    +1 smartass points for Gregorio!!!
     
    konakc, Mikie, DangerDirtyD and 3 others like this.
  26. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    It is a funny thing that you raise this. I have always been a proponent of Harding Truck Trail... and wishing it was single track. Well with the recent heavy rain and weed growth, much of it IS single track. More so than I have ever seen it in the 10+ years I have been riding it. However making it single track because it is overgrown with 8' tall invasive mustard plants is not necessarily a good thing. I have grown used to descending that trail... to put it politically... in speeds in excess of 10 mph AS LONG AS I HAD SIGHT LINES. I can't see Sh!t now because it is like riding through a tunnel. So I don't irresponsibly bomb down a blind trail and blast hikers off. At the same time... I miss my speed...
     
    bvader, konakc, scan and 3 others like this.
  27. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J M
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower

    That is the difference of riding in the county/state parks vs. the Santa Ana's.
     
    Mikie, mountaingirl sara and Faust29 like this.
  28. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    '20 Pivot Firebird 29
    In cases like this, the public will side with the hiker every time. We can have 1000 positive interactions, but non-bikers still hate us and want us off the trails. I will continue to be overly pleasant and overly polite whenever I encounter other users, whether they do dumb things or not. I am not so pleasant to my fellow douchebag riders doing douchy things. In this case, I hope the hiker was at fault, and I hope he got what was coming to him, but his story will be that the ******* mt. biker started it, and that story will be repeated. :(
     
    stevers, sir crashalot, Mikie and 5 others like this.
  29. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Addict

    Location:
    CA
    Name:
    Chicken Nugget
    Current Bike:
    2018 Guerrilla Gravity SMASH
    I never exceed 10mph when climbing.
    It blows my mind how two or even three or four people can explain reality so differently.
     
    tick, Cyclotourist and mtnbikej like this.
  30. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    It shouldn't. Ask four guys if they think the same girl is attractive or not. Reality is relative - or at least Einstein thought so :)

    Go to my HOA board meeting if you want to hear different versions of reality :) Five home owners with completely different versions of what the hell is going on :)
     
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