OC Parks General Meeting on 01/09 to discuss E-Bikes

Discussion in 'Trail Advocacy' started by horsebikerider, Jan 6, 2020.


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  1. wheezy

    wheezy Member

    Location:
    Turtle Rock
    Name:
    Todd McTallguy
    Current Bike:
    2020 NORCO Range VLT C1
    Danger? Hmmm. Anybody here ever exceed 10mph on a trail in OC? Bad news, you're illegal. Yup, 10mph speed limit on ALL trails in OC. I actually didn't know that until that last OC Parks meeting. Or is that rule ok to break because it applies to you? Just curious, and hopefully my sarcasm is obvious.

    I've seen so many absurd statements being made by both sides of this "debate" and the truth always sits somewhere in the middle. 20mph uphill... LOL... I'd love to see it.

    I've been to ALL of the OC Parks meetings where this has been discussed, spoken at several and have been working directly with Stacy Blackwood, the Director of OC parks and John Koos, the newly elected Chair. Trust me, they truly want what is best for the park system and honestly, don't really want to allow them because of liability reasons. A few other guys on the board have asked some good questions though and they seemingly, genuinely want to get it right. No matter what, they have to do a whole slew of due diligence that takes a ton of time and money. I get the impression though that Stacy, is essentially looking for any big government entity to say NO; but if you're paying attention that's not what is happening. All the big agencies are giving the thumbs up and green lighting e-bikes across the country. OC Parks is sending off a letter (that I think is still in progress as many board members requested changes to the one dated Jan 9) and continuing to seek guidance. If a direct response is not given to OC Parks within 90 days, the process of due diligence with the intention to ALLEGEDLY allow e-bikes will begin. Again, they don't really want to, because it's sticking their neck out. OC parks is very different than most trail systems because of how all the land was acquired. Every area has it's own unique set of guidelines. This will be a very lengthy process.

    Also, keep in mind, if someone is actually handicapped and has a placard and the paperwork for that placard, they can currently ride, LEGALLY in OC Parks. PERIOD. So please, be respectful; especially if you're riding any trails over 10mph. The guys confronting people, will be to blame when the big fear does come true that they ban all bikes. That HAS been discussed; albeit very briefly as what I'd call a scare tactic. Anyhow, just wanted to chime in with a real update.

    I have a call with Stacy on Monday. Anybody have any legitimate questions for her, I will ask them.

    OK guys, keep it below 10 mph! Stay safe!
     
    MrGreedom, Danimal, fos'l and 8 others like this.
  2. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Thanks Uncle Wheezy! :thumbsup:
     
  3. Cyclotourist

    Cyclotourist iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Redlands
    Name:
    David
    Current Bike:
    Don't fence me in!
    Good content here, thanks!
     
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  4. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    @wheezy I would never deny you an emtb or access to real trails on said bike. I recall how difficult it is for you to breathe on a full pedal bike. However, the fraudulent holders of placards and papers, and the people who instruct others how to get fraudulent paperwork, well...

    And yes, regular mtbers descend at 15-20 mph - which makes uphill speeds of 15 mph that much more dangerous. Regular mtber spend 90% of their time going under 10 mph.

    As I said in an earlier thread - I don't say anything to e-mt bikers in parks where their motorbikes are illegal because I break the posted laws too. The hypocrisy doesn't sit well with me, so I keep my mouth shut unless the rider is being an ass (and that goes for any rider).
     
  5. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
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  6. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Obsidian likes this.
  7. wheezy

    wheezy Member

    Location:
    Turtle Rock
    Name:
    Todd McTallguy
    Current Bike:
    2020 NORCO Range VLT C1
    Lol at some of those comments.

    A. Still haven't seen anyone going uphill at 15... Certainly not sustained. To say someone going uphill at 15 makes it more dangerous because EVERYONE else is breaking the law going down is... Well... Anyhow. I do get it though and you're not wrong, increased closing speeds does increase the likelihood of a collision. Still never happened to me amd I ride a lot!

    Fraudulent placards? Not exactly easy to get man. Even my doctor kinda grilled me and I'm a hot mess of a human being for sure. I guess it's not impossible but it's not the norm.

    I'm old enough to remember when a bunch of people whined and bicthed about SUSPENSION and how much faster bikes would be going and that it would certainly be total chaos and certain death with these psychos on their motorless dirtbikes!

    Anyhow. Love this sport. Love you guys. Love the open discussion without people name calling or being offensive.

    Strava will be the undoing of the mountain bike in OC. 90% under 10mph.... Unfortunately not the case and the people that make the rules are well aware. But, what the hell do I know anyway.
     
  8. FizzyCola

    FizzyCola Member

    Location:
    The soda aisle.
    Name:
    Dr. Thunder
    Is breaking the 10mph law while climbing more dangerous to other users than breaking it while descending?
     
    Mikie likes this.
  9. Cyclotourist

    Cyclotourist iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Redlands
    Name:
    David
    Current Bike:
    Don't fence me in!
  10. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Yes. To riders coming down.
     
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  11. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Some day..... some day we may establish this is not an eBike site..... some day. - Me Dreaming
     
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  12. UPSed

    UPSed iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Simi Valley
    Name:
    Ed
    Current Bike:
    Niner Jet 9 RDO
    I hate to say it but I'm beginning to see shades of MTBR here. :(
     
  13. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Nevah!
     
  14. wheezy

    wheezy Member

    Location:
    Turtle Rock
    Name:
    Todd McTallguy
    Current Bike:
    2020 NORCO Range VLT C1
    Lol... Nobody is breaking 10mph uphill. On a long boring fire road downhill today, I looked down to check speed and laughed at the thought of someone going uphill at 15mph. Its a fairytale argument.
     
    bpacifica, fos'l and Mikie like this.
  15. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Alrighty!
    Let’s get back to mountain biking! I think we have strung this thread out as long as reality makes sense. Let’s move along.... :thumbsup:
     
    tick and UPSed like this.
  16. wheezy

    wheezy Member

    Location:
    Turtle Rock
    Name:
    Todd McTallguy
    Current Bike:
    2020 NORCO Range VLT C1
    fJamMB61DPFAXSVTBAwdgNPLjMmqx9v2KsztsHRTyPgii2jK1qpzoGkW7AUdbUbx?format=match&mode=fit&width=640.jpg
     
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  17. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Well, this began as an e-bike thread, so...

    And for the most part, it's been civil.
     
  18. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Yup!
    But you do not get my IM's :)

    The discovery is, there is no new discoveries. We discuss and re-discuss and re-discuss the same issues over and over and over and no one on either side changes their mind.
    I will NOT lot anyone think our site is anything like mtbr. :eek::D
     
    tick, herzalot, DangerDirtyD and 5 others like this.
  19. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    CA
    Name:
    Chicken Nugget
    Current Bike:
    2018 Guerrilla Gravity SMASH
    Yea well the vote is Wednesday and maybe enough heads can change their minds.
     
    tick and Mikie like this.
  20. tick

    tick Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Tick
    Current Bike:
    Process 111
    i don’t see a vote on the agenda, or anything ebike related at all. am I missing something?

    they did post OC Parks director Stacy Blackwood’s comments and lots of other stuff from the last month’s meeting. Reading it brings it home—If the state says ok to E, the first thing the county will do is assess which trails to close or restrict access to all bikes. Meaning we will be kicked out before the e-riders have a chance to take a powered victory lap.

    All the bike shop guys who spoke at the meeting might regret this.

    The bottom of page 4, if you want the details...
    http://www.ocparks.com/civicax/filebank/blobdload.aspx?BlobID=109009

    Mikie—totally with you about beating dead horses. Hopefully this post beats a horse that is only mostly dead.
     
  21. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    Well...that sounds ominous
     
    Mikie and tick like this.
  22. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    details please
     
    Mikie likes this.
  23. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    CA
    Name:
    Chicken Nugget
    Current Bike:
    2018 Guerrilla Gravity SMASH
    This is a serious topic than cannot get derailed. In the end, the people will get their way. Which people? I don’t know. Someone though.
     
    Grego, Mikie, tick and 1 other person like this.
  24. fos'l

    fos'l Well-Known Member

    Name:
    Bob
    Current Bike:
    2005 Santa Cruz Superlight
    Individuals could say I'm trying to obfuscate the issue, but IMO MTB shot itself in the foot by promulgating the concept of motorcycle-like speeds for e-MTB's in the minds of hikers and equestrians, consequently, providing ammunition for them. There may be a random person who rides too fast, but my observations (mostly when I'm riding MTB) suggest most e-riders are like my friend and me. We average 8 - 12 mph on our rides (he tracks everything, I don't care), so pretty slow uphill. Nobody knows this since we rarely encounter anyone where we ride. I don't think other groups brought up e-MTB problems in their attempts to regulate off road riding before MTB did, but I could be 100% wrong.
     
  25. tick

    tick Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Tick
    Current Bike:
    Process 111
    Read the link I provided. Speed is a secondary issue for the county-they expect the 10 mph rule to be observed by all users. Their concern is crowding and the side impacts of crowding. The bike shop guys came in and said “we just want to get more folks out there enjoying the trails” and the county said “yup, that’s the problem.”
     
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  26. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower

    This is not the normal......try Oaks/Aliso/Whiting on a busy weekend morning or weekday afternoon, and you'll see a lot more riders.

    I could say that I rarely see them as well when I am out on Main Divide....but we know that is not what we are talking about here. We are talking about very high populated county park trails.

    Perhaps some of the ebikers ride slow.....just like some of the people that walk their dogs in the parks keep them on leash and pick up their sh!t, but it's the smaller percentage that doesn't that will screw it up for everyone.

    In my experiences, most of the ebikes go to fast. I have shared several recent experiences in this thread and "I Rode My Bike".

    We also encountered a high power e-moto yesterday....it had pedals and a cranks, so someone will claim it was a bike....doing easily 40+ mph. Granted we were not in the park, but you allow one....these will start to follow.
     
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  27. fos'l

    fos'l Well-Known Member

    Name:
    Bob
    Current Bike:
    2005 Santa Cruz Superlight
    Guess I incorporated my experience into an opinion.
     
    Faust29 and Mikie like this.
  28. Obsidian

    Obsidian iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Costa Mesa
    Name:
    Obsidian
    Current Bike:
    27.5 Intense Tracer
    Bringing up "breaking the 10 mph rule" as a defense to allow eBikes is ridiculous. eBikes are against the rules and also breaking the 10 mph rule. That is like saying "let's allow bicycles on the freeways because all cars are breaking the speed limit." Of course not.

    All I really have to say on the eBike topic at this point is if OC Parks really wants to get rid of them, then they need to fully ban and enforce that ban very soon. Otherwise, it will be too late because there will be too many of them. At that point, the only option would be to ban all bikes.

    Anyone not seeing eBikes on OC trails is not looking for them, because they are everywhere. I cannot remember the last ride I did where I did not see at least one. I saw four in Limestone yesterday, even with all the docents and rangers out there.
     
  29. tick

    tick Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Tick
    Current Bike:
    Process 111
    You are probably right. Hikers and Equestrians don’t see ebikes as a threat to their access. And they aren’t paying attention to developments in the bike biz.

    I understand that many pedal bike riders don’t see ebikes as a threat to their access either. if they don’t ride in OC parks, they are probably right. But if it matters to you, read the OC Parks document and consider the threat to access here.

    At this point it’s pretty much out of our hands. The policy folks will do what they’re gonna do and let us know when they are done.
     
  30. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    I am not using the 10 mph law as a defense to allow e-bikes, I just use it in my head to point out that I violate posted laws too. Thus I don't throw stones.

    I am happy to report that on my 2.5 hour ride in Aliso today I saw maybe 50 bikes (25 in one group alone) and not one was an e-bike. That's pretty rare. Tons of YTs today. Santa Cruz are so last week.
     
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