OC Parks General Meeting on 01/09 to discuss E-Bikes

Discussion in 'Trail Advocacy' started by horsebikerider, Jan 6, 2020.



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  1. horsebikerider

    horsebikerider Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Suzanne Martin
    Current Bike:
    Tallboy
    Calling all OC Parks Users!!

    E-Bikes to be discussed at next OC Parks Commission meeting this Thursday, January 9th at 7PM.

    Now is your chance to speak and provide your thoughts on whether E-Bikes should be allowed in OC Parks. Please come and let your voice be heard. It will be an interesting meeting as there will be a lot of supporters there.

    Next OC Parks Commission meeting is on January 9, 2020 at 7PM. 13042 Old Myford Road, Irvine.

    OC Parks Commission meetings are held in the first floor conference room of the Mess Hall located in the OC Parks Headquarters campus, unless otherwise indicated.

    http://www.ocparks.com/about/commis...T8C_CoxZLTyUwTNziCKAP-y1w9gLwFfrwSTG_azR-H0gI
     
  2. MrGreedom

    MrGreedom Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Name:
    Ryan
    Current Bike:
    BH Lynx6
    I have a feeling they will be granted access.

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQbPfu-dukX_uYu5WlrBXPG8-y7hfVy9AhBWIIIkHEABfzvKrjT&s.jpg
     
    Mikie, Cyclotourist, tick and 6 others like this.
  3. Danimal

    Danimal iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Mission Viejo
    Name:
    Dan
    Current Bike:
    GG Trail Pistol!
    Ebikes and moto's already have blurred lines. Have already seen bikes that dont need to be pedalled on the OC trails. I don't have anything in particular against ebikes other than the high speeds on otherwise slow trails. And this is from my experience almost being run over on uphill trails.

    Allow them and might ass well allow electric motorcycles....same thing. So, moto's might be allowed...
     
  4. Torrent77

    Torrent77 Well-Known Member

    Name:
    Dave
    I already see so many ebikers on Oaks and other OC parks with almost 0 repercussions. I hope it gets resolved one way or another.
     
  5. horsebikerider

    horsebikerider Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Suzanne Martin
    Current Bike:
    Tallboy
    This is an opportunity for all voices to speak to OC Parks and help them get a better understanding from their park users.
     
    Mikie, Cyclotourist, mike and 4 others like this.
  6. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 SC Megaplower
    I will do my best to be there. I might have to drag my brother with me, since he will be in town visiting. I imagine I will get boo'd and shouted down, because the e-bike crowd is supported by the bicycle industry, who will flood the place, I am sure. Better have some data to back up my assertions.

    Thanks for posting. I couldn't click "like" on @MrGreedom's post, but he's probably right.
     
  7. horsebikerider

    horsebikerider Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Suzanne Martin
    Current Bike:
    Tallboy
    It will definitely be a very divided room as I posted on FB and a lot of the supporter groups and bike shops have shared it. It will be interesting to hear what the supporters have to say. But we need to opponents to speak their mind too. We need to protect the trails we have otherwise, all types of bikes may be at risk for enjoying trails in OC parks.
     
    Fueledbyex8, Mikie, Obsidian and 7 others like this.
  8. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 SC Megaplower
    My biggest fear has always been that they will allow in e-bikes, then the inevitable will happen (massive increase in trail use and abuse, collisions, altercations and accidents, etc) and then ALL bikes will be banned.
     
    Luis, Stkx66, MolarM and 10 others like this.
  9. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    Maybe I missed something, but the agenda item appeats to be about an already-written letter from the Commission to CDFG & USFW asking for clarification on their requirements.

    This is not a decision being made by OC Parks.
     
  10. tick

    tick Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Tick
    Current Bike:
    Process 111
    If comment is allowed, I will comment:

    If ebikes are allowed, I will ride one. This will triple the number of miles I travel on my typical ride. Assuming half of all all current mtb users switch, the number of trail miles traveled will double, without any additional new users.

    If they are not allowed, I and the other riders will not ride them, and the impending overcrowding won’t happen.

    doesn’t matter. The way this agenda has been written, the parks want to allow them.
     
  11. tick

    tick Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Tick
    Current Bike:
    Process 111
    That’s not exactly how I read it, certain aspects of this are in OCParks’ control. The county is asking for clarification from them to see if they can permit ebikes. I don’t think they’d frame the topic this way if they weren’t trying to permit them. The 1996 NCCP document says that mountain biking is a permitted use in the central OC open spaces. Obviously it doesn’t say anything about ebikes.

    given the lack of enforcement we’ve encountered, I believe the parks would like to permit them. But if the state or the feds say no, they can at least wash their hands of it, and the status quo will remain, where ebikes are technically not permitted but never enforced.

    The only way ebikes are kept out is if the state says:
    A:No, you can’t allow them, and
    B:yes, you have to enforce this or we cut off funding. That is one possible outcome.
     
    Mikie, Faust29, Cyclotourist and 4 others like this.
  12. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 SC Megaplower
    We asked a ranger in Whiting if he is ticketing e-bikers. He said "absolutely."
     
    bvader, Mikie, Faust29 and 6 others like this.
  13. tick

    tick Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Tick
    Current Bike:
    Process 111
    I know they have to say that, but they can’t really mean it. Shooting fish in a barrel sounds way harder than finding an ebike to cite.
     
  14. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J M
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower
    All they have to do is sit at 4 Corners on a Saturday morning for a few hours....and the offenders will come to them.
     
    Fueledbyex8, BonsaiNut, Mikie and 7 others like this.
  15. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 SC Megaplower
    Truth! We saw him on Borrego, but when we got to 4 corners, sure enough, motorbikes.
     
    Mikie, Faust29, Cyclotourist and 3 others like this.
  16. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot Well-Known Member

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    as much as i despise the ebike trend, I say either strictly enforce the ban, or legalize them (with the stipulation that it extends to electric pedal-assist motors on mtb frames only, and not motorcycle frames or combustion engines) The current situation of nonenforcement just fosters disrespect for all the park rules.
     
    Cyclotourist, Mikie, Faust29 and 3 others like this.
  17. fos'l

    fos'l Member

    Name:
    Bob
    Not to start a flame war, but I would be in favor of allowing them in some parks (not Aliso, El Moro or crowded ones) on weekdays, but not weekends. They could focus policing on weekends where it would be more fruitful. Can't expect to catch anyone during the week when there are hardly any riders. However, this could be impractical.
     
    Cyclotourist, Mikie, Faust29 and 2 others like this.
  18. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J M
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower

    I might have had more sympathy and acceptance of Ebikes, but from day one the argument that they didn’t have motors, followed by riding them where they are allowed, the sense of entitlement from those riding them illegally, and those without disabilities claiming disabilities just so they can ride them....has kept me from accepting them.

    I have my own other concerns when it comes to safety that just add to it.
     
  19. Derek13

    Derek13 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Costa Mesa
    Name:
    Derek Smith
    Current Bike:
    SC Hightower and Chameleon
    I would like to weigh in a link to another thread from a few months ago.

    https://www.imtbtrails.com/forum/threads/thinkmtb-club.8437/ This type of thread will become more and more prevalent once legalization of motor driven vehicles are allowed on public trail systems.

    The polarization of hikers vs. bikers vs. rangers vs. the general public will ultimately end with closures of parks. Costs of maintenance, safety, and lawsuits will lead us down a road of losing access for ALL.
     
    Luis, HBkites, Cyclotourist and 6 others like this.
  20. Obsidian

    Obsidian Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Costa Mesa
    Name:
    Obsidian
    Current Bike:
    2017 Intense Tracer
    eBikes are allowed at SkyPark, and despite those trails being one way and off limits to hikers, they are still a menace. eBikes often blast by on the climbs, pass in the switchbacks, and nearly collide with other bikers. Just based on my experiences there, I would not want to have to deal with them on our local trails. Almost all of our trails are bidirectional, so we would have to deal with them climbing trails such as Chutes Ridgeline & The Luge. Mix in our 5 to 1 (?) ratio of hikers to bikers and it will be a disaster waiting to happen.

    One thing that stands out to me most about eBikers is that they really do not want to slow down for anything or anyone, especially while climbing. I am sure there are a few, but most of them just seem to hate getting held up and will force their way past. I am sure every single one of them at a meeting would deny that, but that's been my experience.
     
  21. fos'l

    fos'l Member

    Name:
    Bob
    I remember a MLB player giving batting advice saying "Hit em where they ain't". My riding advice is "Go where they ain't", pretty easy during the week, but not that challenging on weekends either. Main focus for avoidance on weekends is so my wife doesn't get creamed by a wayward rider.
     
  22. tick

    tick Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Tick
    Current Bike:
    Process 111
    having them tailgate me gives me a chance to hear their sad stories. Every single one has a heart condition, or heard from a friend that it is ok here, something like that. After making them hold up for a few switchbacks I generally let them go by, but sometimes not.

    I figure the least I can do is make them feel unwelcome.
     
    Old&InTheWay, Mikie, Faust29 and 5 others like this.
  23. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J M
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower
  24. Redman

    Redman Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Cypress, Ca
    Name:
    Kevin
    Current Bike:
    SC OG Hightower 29'r
    Good luck to those going tonight. Thanks for standing up! Expect a LARGE number of people in support of E:bang:
     
  25. fos'l

    fos'l Member

    Name:
    Bob
    JM is wrong on (at least) one point; Class 3 are PAS-only, and must be ridden on a bike lane that is contiguous with a roadway. Also, AFAIK, none of the major manufacturers (Specialized, Trek, Giant) have an eMTB that is "higher" than Class 1 (20 mph, PAS). A lot of other points are true in terms of identifying "Class" on a trail. Also, IMO, DIY shouldn't be permitted since it's nearly impossible to tell the power level just by looking at them. I've given up caring if legislation is changed or not. I'll ride whatever I can as long as I can.
     
  26. horsebikerider

    horsebikerider Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Suzanne Martin
    Current Bike:
    Tallboy
    The other users you are forgetting is the Equestrians. Fortunately, I have not had any really bad interaction with e-bikers when I am on my horse. I usually only have issues with them when I am on my mountain bike. However, the point I am making is that in our efforts to help educate the powers that be (OC Parks) is to help them become more aware of ALL of the users so that no one feels left out. Equestrians have taken the brunt since the dawn of mountain biking. Don't get me wrong, I was a mountain biker first. But it's the equestrians that made the trails to begin with. There is a wide number of equestrians that do not go into the parks because they (both the human and the horse) are afraid of bikers, which makes me sad. I just wish that all users could be decent, kind and friendly human beings and watch out for one another rather than being egocentric and greedy and making it all about them and their own user group.
     
  27. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Lebec, California
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower/Yeti 5C
    I'm continued to be blown away that there are not more trail user specific trails to bring peace and harmony to all.
    In Utah we found Bear Claw Poppy to be directional specific. Yeah, sure... there was a Jackwad that blazed down the up trail on an eBike right before our eyes, but at least the rule is there to hold him accountable if caught.
    I can tell you that eBikes and Equestrians are NOT going to mix. This coming from a person with significant Backpacking/Horse Back Riding / Mountain Biker who used to be a MOTO dude big time for years!
    There! I said it! :inlove:
    Mikie
     
  28. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Lebec, California
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower/Yeti 5C
  29. tick

    tick Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Tick
    Current Bike:
    Process 111
    I encounter far fewer horses than I did in the 90s. I’ve attributed it to changing demographics and economics (horse people moving to Norco or out of state, and out of OPA), but crowding certainly has to play a role.

    The lack of equestrian encounters means that for most riders new to the sport since the 2008 recession (when horse encounters at Oaks dropped substantially), they may have never had to yield to a horse as part of their basic MTB education. So that when their first encounter happens, they don’t have a way to know how to handle it.
     
    Luis, Old&InTheWay, MrGreedom and 5 others like this.
  30. horsebikerider

    horsebikerider Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Suzanne Martin
    Current Bike:
    Tallboy
    Agreed! There needs to be more user education somehow, some way. I also believe that a lot of equestrians stopped coming into Santiago Oaks and Peter's Canyon when mountain biking became more popular. I'm not gonna lie, there are certain trails and times of day that I stay away from due to the amount of bike traffic on them. However, I am doing my best to be on both side of the river and bridge the gap between bikers and equestrians and to help educate both user groups. But, alas, I am just one person.
     
    Luis, Old&InTheWay, Stkx66 and 6 others like this.
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