Mountain lion deer kill in Aliso Woods?

So I was having a chat with another rider I ran across on a trail and he told me there was a mountain lion deer kill at Aliso. He said he wouldn't have believed it but said his friend saw the carcass himself. It would be quite rare for a mountain lion to be in this area, but curious if anyone knows any more about this.

 

Last I had heard there were no known mtn lions on that side of the 405 fwy in OC.

 

A lot more deer in Aliso lately. Last 3 times riding I have counted 14 deer in the meadow on the right, riding into the park

 

Very cool if it's true.

Several years ago I found a nice map of Mtn lion movement in OC parks. It looked like most of the parks were pretty well used with exception of Santiago Oaks. Surprisingly, Oaks was only used as an area to move through by two tracked lions.

I haven't been able to find that study or map online since though.

 

Ya, I'm fascinated by them. My understanding is that very few mt. lions in OC are collared as opposed to LA. So not much firm data for OC.

 

Not gonna say I saw a kitty since it wasn't real clear what I saw but it looked and moved like a cat and was yearling size for a kitty, albeit a bit stocky. Too large for bobcat and more fluid. Couldn't really make out what it was for sure since I assumed it was not a lion. Bommer Canyon last week. I've always discounted the many people who've told me over the years "there's a mountain lion over there" breathlessly in the San Joaquin Hills, but I dunno. It really did look like a lion.

 

TFPU. I'm not surprised by this. I saw a mountain lion two separate times near Coyote Run in the 90s.

 

Official policy has been no lions that far west.
They say no captures on cameras and such yada yada.
Many people over time have claimed they've seen them and officials say they were wrong.
Just last week I was reading a 350 page report for a sludge pipeline in Aliso. (right up @DangerDirtyD 's alley)
Anyways, report mentioned lion footprints in Aliso. A report written by a real biologist.
There's lots of deer in Aliso and lions eat deer.

I'll go with they at least transit the area occasionally

 

Maybe no lions but plenty of cougars in Aliso.

 

I think there a park named for them around there?

 

The lion that was hit on the 73 last year was technically not in the park. But I’d say it was close enough to be convinced that the kitties do get over there from time to time.

 

I don't remember that one, but that's definite proof.

 

While this site I linked made the below comment who knows, maybe the weird past year we’ve had brought them into places they’ve been out of for a long time.

“While mountain lions are reported daily in places like Aliso And Woods Canyon and Laguna Coast Wilderness, those always turn out to be bobcats, there have not been any confirmed mountain lion sightings on the coastal side of I5 at least in the past 10-15 years, that info can be confirmed with any local park ranger. We do get photos/videos sent to us claiming to have witnessed a mountain lion but it is always a bobcat or sometimes even a house cat, there is no reason to believe there are any mountain lions West of Interstate 5.”

https://www.orangecountyoutdoors.com/wildlife/land-mammals/mountain-lion

Mountain lion range
https://goo.gl/maps/w8zbeN4CpVAJumHi6

 

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A sludge pipeline up who's alley?!
.

 

What company wrote the report? It would cost about $4,000 just to run that document through a technical editor for editing, formatting, and pagination.

 

Per that map, apparently mountain lions won't cross Ortega Hwy? Not sure I buy that. Looking at the map, the south end of the Arroyo Trabuco is surprisingly close to Aliso Woods and following the creek, there is even a tunnel under I-5. I say it's certainly possible.

 

I'll have to find it again. It's a few years old, they are just now gonna start the construction. I probably started from OCParks and followed links to it.

I meant the report was up @DangerDirtyD 's alley. Sludge is probably more in his brain.

Not sure if it was a full EIR or whatever it was called, but has all the sections, geological, biological, historical, cultural etc

 

Okay, here is the EIR. Prepared by Dudek. ( Dude K?, Hey, Dude K!)

Page 155 mentions Mt Lion scat. (Sadly, just that is something that I could see some wacko enviro planting). Where an animal poops, it walks.

https://www.socwa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Final_Environmental_Impact_Report.pdf

 

If I were a betting man I’d put my money on it being due to the fact that the other side of Ortega is not Orange County.. but maybe the cats wear shock collars, who knows?

 

It is, at least the first half of it.

 

People who carry scat (and artifacts) around to salt sites most often happen to live near said project site and are not hired by professional consulting companies. I would argue surveyors prefer not to identify anything sensitive on their projects so they would not have to deal with responsible and trustee agency jurisdiction and additional research and reporting. For example, the only other mention of mountain lions is cursory on page 168; I would think elaboration would be provided on page 165, but perhaps California did not consider the mountain lion a “special status species” in 2013. Finally, on page 172, the finding is that everything would be A-OK as long as more biologists are hired to conduct more surveys just before construction commences and to watch the construction crews work, revegetate the disturbance area and similar environs with specific plant species at specified ratios, and do some paperwork and submit a fee payable by the project Applicant to Responsible Agencies. None of the mitigation regards mountain lions.

That’ll be $500, please.

 

Oh, I'm not saying those hired would do that.
The case I'm thinking of is where someone was putting lynx hair on hair traps. Trying to stop a development in Colorado, I think.

The Mt Lion special status goes back to 1990.

 

This is why a POS employee should take a hike (without getting paid to survey a project site). Fish and Game Code, § 4800 means the EIR required further analysis of impacts to mountain lions. I would think the CDFW commented on the matter, but perhaps they didn’t since this is a Final EIR. I didn’t look through the comment letters because it’s the weekend. The question I have is why even mention the scat if there is no acknowledgement of the species in the applicable impacts discussion?

 

Well at least we have confirmation that @mike is wrong. Why? Because if the government said it - we know it is true!

 

I was kidding, my only guess is that was the border they used on their map since the beginning part of Ortega would not be difficult at all for a lion to cross. And since there have been sightings and attacks (years ago) in Caspers they surely are on the other side. While the original links I posted say they have not been on the other side of the 5 in the past 10-15 years I think it is silly to think they wouldn’t move over there at some point.

Here is a gps tracked map, not very detailed but gives a better idea of their reach.

 

They are south of Ortega for sure. I have had an up close sighting with a big healthy cat while hiking near Oak Flats.
My understanding is that the San Mateo Wilderness is prime lion territory

 

Yes, it was never a doubt of mine but the map I posted showed them stopping at Ortega which grew some skepticism of the source. I just think that was where their study boundary was. I think they could absolutely be making their way to the Aliso Woods area which was the subject to begin with.

 

great map, thank you

the map also shows how much of a hot spot the Limestone Canyon has been for mountain lions. The heavy burns from 2 fires in Limestone might have pushed them out to the non-burn areas like east side of Whiting and O Neill, like their dinner (deer).

 

Speaking of Limestone. I have done many rides and hikes out there with (let's see if I remember) Nature Conservancy, IRLR, IRC, OCParks.
I have seen many lion prints out there. On one hike a docent had a photo album of their game cameras. Many photos of lions at water troughs and on trails.
One of my favorite tracks was on the Cactus Trail, heading uphill. I was pedalling very slow as I often do and had lots of time to look down. I saw lion prints and deer prints on the trail. I had this great made up story in my mind that a lion was tracking a deer. Hey, it could be true.

 

https://www.lagunabeachindy.com/researchers-tracking-mountain-in-wilderness-park-near-laguna-beach/