Meadows reboot 1-15-17

Discussion in 'Trail Maintenance' started by kioti, Jan 14, 2017.


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  1. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    Hey All,

    Chris (@herzalot )and I are going to work on Meadows in Aliso tomorrow morning, Sunday the 15th. We need your help. Neither of us have ridden it in the last few weeks, but based on @jaime's day after Christmas video, it's going to need rut filling and drainage renewal work.

    This trail has about 40 turns over about 1.5 miles and it's too much for 2 guys to handle in a half day. Please contact me at 949-456-2242 to help get this trail back in good shape.

    Note: We have a group size limit and you must contact me by 8:00pm this evening to be included. Thank you!

    Where: Meadows Trail, Aliso and Woods Canyon Wilderness Park
    When: Sunday morning, January 15th
    Meet time: 8:00am
    Start location: Moulton Meadows Park, park on road near access gate
    Specifically: Park on Balboa Avenue near the corner of Del Mar. Access from PCH/ up Nyes Place
    Duration: We plan to finish by noon.
    Details: Hiking in. Wear boots or sturdy trail shoes with good traction. Bring work gloves, hat, sunscreen, and food and water to sustain yourself. I will supply tools.
    Approximate distance: 4 miles (top to bottom and back to top)
    Look for: my truck, maroon '96 Toyota Tacoma w/ shell
    Contact info: Jim (aka kioti) at 949-456-2242
     
    shawndoh, mike, mtnbikej and 2 others like this.
  2. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    @kioti I'm in, as you know. I may need to sample the goods after we are done!
     
    mike, mtnbikej and kioti like this.
  3. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    Always a good idea to test ride one's work. I'd do it, too, but I don't know if I've got a secure place to stash my friend's bike.:(
     
    mike likes this.
  4. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Just leave it in the back of your truck unsecured and open for all to see. I'm sure it will be fine. :confused:

    I could put my hitch rack on the back of my car. It locks the bikes. And we could use one more cable lock for some extra deterrence.
     
    mike and kioti like this.
  5. Redman

    Redman iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Henderson, Nv
    Name:
    Kevin
    Current Bike:
    SC OG Hightower 29'r
    I am definitely interested just gotta check with my CEO for clearance.
     
  6. Redman

    Redman iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Henderson, Nv
    Name:
    Kevin
    Current Bike:
    SC OG Hightower 29'r
    I'm in!
     
    herzalot, kioti, mike and 1 other person like this.
  7. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    Awesome! We look forward to seeing you in the morning. Call or text me if you have any questions 949-456-2242.

    Oh, and best regards to the CEO! :thumbsup:
     
    herzalot likes this.
  8. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    i was thinking about signing up for this, but had a health incident with my aunt today and forgot about signing up by 8 pm. I wouldve hafta left at 10:15 or so to go to work anyway. Maybe another time.
     
    kioti and herzalot like this.
  9. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Well, that was interesting. @Redman, @Cornholio and another dude (Non Dot) joined @kioti and me on Meadow trail in Aliso to do some tune up, rut fixing and maybe some drain and berm work. Well, a guy I'll refer to as Mr. X from LCF came in as the official trail boss (along with his friend) and the fireworks began. To say he and Jim don't get along may be the understatement of the decade.

    Let me go on record as saying I endorse Jim Jennings' trailwork. What he has done on The Luge and on Meadows is as sustainable as a trail in So Cal can be and the trails are fun - and safer - to ride than those without berms. Mr. X claims that the trails are not sustainable and continues to preach about water management, digging trenches all over the trails and looking at berms like they are the scourge of the earth. Sigh. All I wanted to do was clean up the minor rain damage on the best flow trail in OC.

    Jim's designs are fun for 12 months a year. They shed water very well, or push it to the inside of the turns where a rut won't be a problem. So Cal doesn't get much rain, so we accept that we may have to do maintenance during rainy season once or twice a year. They hold up in the dry, dusty season (10 months a year) with only a few braking bumps being an issue.

    The designs that were described by Mr. X seemed to be advocating outsloped turns with trenches all over the place to "manage the water." These designs aren't fun for any months a year, and will still require the same rut maintenance during or after rainy season. Hopefully, I am simply misunderstanding Mr. X's descriptions. The work he did on Lizard is pretty fun. The trenches dug today made no sense to me.

    Luckily, we were able to clean up a couple of berms at the bottom, and even install a new one. We cleaned up the ruts on the bottom section as well. I ran out of time to do rut mitigation towards the top. The main problem with the sharp-edged rain ruts is that riders avoid them, thus pushing the trail out wider. The ruts can also catch your wheel.

    If you ride Meadows between now and the next rain, there is still a substantial rut along the top 1/3rd of the trail, but it's almost always on the inside of the turn, so you can cross it, then turn with no problem. Then, 1/2 way down, you will see some interesting trenches and humps in the trail - Mr. X's drainage systems. Further down you will find a few new swoopy berms, including a substantial left, between two large bushes. That's Jim, Kevin and Brian's work. I was with that crew too.

    I don't know how this conflict in trail design theory will play itself out, but I fear the "Army Corps of Engineers" approach will win out, politically.

    Thank you Jim, Kevin, Brian and Non Dot guy for your hard work and dedication!
     
  10. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    Fwiw, I also am a fan of kioti's approach. Thanks for the work you guys! Wish I could've joined in
     
    Cornholio, bvader, herzalot and 2 others like this.
  11. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    CA
    Name:
    Chicken Nugget
    Current Bike:
    2018 Guerrilla Gravity SMASH
    Why didn't Mike just fill in the ruts with pebbles and gravel and sprinkle some gravel and sand on the trail prism and call it an early day? Kioti's berms are cradles to my newborn bike-handling. Send me to bed, Jim!
     
  12. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    "Rockabye Dio, on the trail tops.."

    I'm gonna focus on the positive and say Chris, Brian, Kevin and JON were awesome. We had a plan to fill little ruts and restore drainage (which we did), but couldn't resist adding some shape here and there and building a new turn. Super fun!

    Drains above and below every turn (but as unobtrusive as possible), berms to keep riders on the trail, smooth flow from top to bottom. It takes a few days a year of maintenance and holds well through the summer months. Seems like a good system. Fun trails require work, and these methods are working on the STT, through Whiting, on the Luge and IMO on Meadows.

    I walked it in the Fall, before all this rain started, and it was in great shape. I like to get on drainage restoration once we start getting rain, but wasn't able to get on it until now due to being sick. Even so, we fixed half the trail in about half a day. The other half should happen soon, and then we'll be free to work on details as time allows. But mostly just ride it.

    Gentlemen, you were great, and it was a pleasure meeting and working with each one of you. Thank you for taking the time from riding and family matters, and making Meadows more fun for everyone.
     
    rollnstone, H2oChick, bvader and 9 others like this.
  13. Cornholio

    Cornholio iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    CA
    Name:
    B
    Current Bike:
    Huffy
    Good day to be outside!

    IMG_6141.JPG
     
    pperrelle, kioti, littlewave and 6 others like this.
  14. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    The OC, Calif
    Name:
    Andy
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Chameleon
    herzalot likes this.
  15. shawndoh

    shawndoh Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Lake Forest
    Name:
    shawn
    Current Bike:
    I ride all the bikes!
    Jon Kearly of Non Dot Adventures, is that Jon guy. Great human being and pretty handy on the mtb.
     
    doublewide, MattB, kioti and 3 others like this.
  16. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Yup - great spirit in that one. And he was wearing a Pure Ride hat.
     
    MattB, kioti, shawndoh and 2 others like this.
  17. Redman

    Redman iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Henderson, Nv
    Name:
    Kevin
    Current Bike:
    SC OG Hightower 29'r
    Good to meet everyone today. And work the trail in a different manner. Looking forward to getting back out there.
     
    MattB, kioti, herzalot and 1 other person like this.
  18. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    Hit meadows early today before work. Great work you guys, many thanks
     
    herzalot and kioti like this.
  19. Redman

    Redman iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Henderson, Nv
    Name:
    Kevin
    Current Bike:
    SC OG Hightower 29'r
    Three different sections of trail. Done by 3 different trail builders. Can you tell whose is whose?IMG_2808.JPG IMG_2809.JPG IMG_2810.JPG
     
    herzalot and kioti like this.
  20. mike

    mike iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    HT, FS
    Big props for your good work on the trail, guys.
     
    herzalot and kioti like this.
  21. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    I rode it today and had a blast. There are definitely some awkward drainage humps, but the ruts we did fill in, the new berms or reconditioned berms combined with the hero dirt made it just stupid fun. I am sure it will need a further tuneup after the next round of rains, but hopefully that will simply entail filling in some ruts and reconditioning existing drains.
     
    kioti, mike and Redman like this.
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As a former Amazon Associate I continue to get screwed trying to stay qualified as an Amazon Affiliate. So I quit!


Want to donate to imtbtrails?