Meadows in Aliso 2016

Discussion in 'Trail Conditions' started by kioti, Jan 26, 2016.



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  1. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    I haven't ridden Meadows for a while, but checked it out today after seeing BonsaiNut's post describing rutting, lack of drainage cuts, and holes in the trail ("So... whats happened to Aliso/Woods Canyon?"). I hadn't heard much in the way of negative reports since we did our last work there, but maybe the recent storms carved things up a bit.

    There ARE lots of ruts and definitely a couple holes to watch out for. I'll be putting some time in this winter, starting with filling the holes and making the ruts more manageable. I didn't have time to dig today, but there might be enough residual moisture in the soil to make some basic improvements.

    On the positive side, I still had a blast on the descent because the berms are solid and were mostly rideable as long as I focused and chose my line well. The upper drop-in definitely had my attention as a fairly deep rut runs right down the middle and staying out of it spiked my adrenaline like a big mug of espresso!

    One problem with working on Meadows is that the dirt's impossible to shape unless it's saturated down about 6", and that takes several days of consecutive rain to occur. As soon as that happens I'll put together a group event and we'll tune it back up.

    I love this trail and look forward to working with you guys to dial it back in to it's bermed and flowy goodness!
     
    CarlS, Mikie, Andy and 14 others like this.
  2. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    '20 Pivot Firebird 29
    I'm with you!
     
    Mikie, Danimal and kioti like this.
  3. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    Awesome!
     
    Mikie, Danimal and kioti like this.
  4. H2oChick

    H2oChick Well-Known Member

    Name:
    K-Oss
    The big a$$ holes in the trail woke me up much quicker than espresso! Are they sink holes?
    And this kind of refers back to BonsaiNut's post, what's with the extra inside lines (on the descent)? Unless you were trying to overtake someone on the outside why would you cut across?
     
    Mikie likes this.
  5. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    Yeah well it had my attention too :) It is always a little dicey right there because the trail is so narrow it doesn't leave you a lot of options, so I normally hug the right and go up high. But now that line leads nowhere good - there is an exposed root / shrub that is waiting to greet you. Not sure that too much can do done right there; it wouldn't be that big of a deal if the rest of the trail was in better shape. It just felt sad to me - too many riders thrashing the hill and no one willing to put in the time to keep it maintained...

    So in the spirit of "put up or shut up" I would like to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem :)
     
    kioti and Mikie like this.
  6. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    Thank you, Chris and Greg! I spoke with Ranger Joanne yesterday and we're good to go. I'm going to start with safety issues like those holes and the ruts crossing transitions from one turn to another. Hopefully I can do some of that in the next few days. I'll also add some drainage cuts, if possible.

    I have a Meadows volunteer email list and will send out a message once I start work. I'd love help with this project and anyone wishing to be added to the list should email me at <jim_jennings@cox.net>.

    ^^And yes, H2ochick, they appear to be sinkholes. I'll see if I can't fill them up. The inside lines are users showing trail designers that they've found a better line. Some are up, some are down, and some are to keep feet or tires dry or avoid other users. The fall line trail is used by both hikers and some descending riders and has been historically difficult to close. There are signs on one section near the top for Habitat Restoration, and maybe more of them would help.

    ^^Greg, we had that entry dialed and it'll be good again. It's true the park gets a lot of use, but that's the nature of legal trails in Orange County.. especially key trails like Meadows. This trail's maintenance has been done primarily by volunteers, and I'll do my best to give park lovers the opportunity to bring it back to prime shape. I also hope that some of the volunteers go on to become OC Parks volunteers like myself, and adopt trails like this, Rocket, Lynx and others. The best hope for a trail like this is to have a dedicated group of riders take care of it on an ongoing basis. I'll help anyone who'd like to do this get into the OC Parks system and get this park back into shape.
     
    mike, Mikie, H2oChick and 6 others like this.
  7. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    I think what happens is you start with a nice outer line, but with enough wear and erosion, you tend to get a deep rut in the middle that makes it hard to cross into the berm. Therefore people cut a new, higher inner line that stays above the water runoff and doesn't get rutted. Probably would never be an issue if we had higher trail-maintainer to trail-user quotient, but there is only one Jim in the whole county :)
     
    Mikie and herzalot like this.
  8. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    Meadows has been a work-in-progress for several years, with few really good work days until this year. And this year, I've spent most of my trailworking time playing catch-up on the STT and helping with the Luge. So I missed a couple key storms in Aliso and it's make up time.

    We built the berms on Meadows because it was out-sloped like an old hiking trail, but out-sloped turns don't work well for bikes. We tend to blow off of them. Bermed turns keep riders on the trail and make it more fun for a lot of us, as well as keeping the trail narrower. But you're right, Greg, they take more maintenance. I guess that's the trade off, but I like multi-use trails built with mountain biking in mind.

    My plan is to get out there tomorrow and start cleaning it up. Once we get some rain (maybe Sunday?), we can bring back the drainage and re-shape the berms. Anybody who's free and would like to help can email me tonight at <jim_jennings@cox.net> and we'll work out the details. I'm thinking maybe 10:00am to 4:00pm.
     
    mike, Mikie and knucklebuster like this.
  9. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    This week is tough for me because it's finals week at high school and the kids all get out at noon (so I have to pick up my daughter). Let me know about next week however.
     
    Mikie likes this.
  10. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    That's cool. I'll probably want to work on it Monday or Tuesday if we get some rain.
     
    Mikie and BonsaiNut like this.
  11. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot Well-Known Member

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    so far, this hyped-up el nino just isnt delivering in socal. Rain chance sunday downgraded (again) to 40% chance of light showers. Aaargh.
     
    Mikie likes this.
  12. StrandLeper

    StrandLeper Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Timothy M. Ryan
    Current Bike:
    SC Bronson 1x/Pivot 429 1x xtr
    Kioti,

    Thanks for all that you do. As for the current state of Meadows... nope, its not perfect... but the berms are there. It just requires a bit more bike handling to ride it properly and have fun. (And it is a bit harder to climb).
     
    Mikie and kioti like this.
  13. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    Day One: Dave (knucklebuster) and I parked at the top and walked down to the holes. Both holes are now filled and we added drainage in the hopes of keeping it that way. On our way back up we did some additional drainage work, even on the fall line trail because it's dumping run-off onto the berm trail. Dave is trying to get over a cold and we were both a bit gassed, but decided to work on that long rutted section near the top. The rut is now gone. I'd like some better drainage above it, but we just didn't have it in us.

    Huge props to Dave for his hard work today (while still sick!)! The dirt was damp below the crust so digging conditions were surprisingly good, though at times it was like chewing a super tough steak.

    Next work day will be after the rain, if it rains.. I'd like to get out there while the surface is still damp, so that could be Monday or Tuesday. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
     
    mike, ridinrox, DangerDirtyD and 14 others like this.
  14. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot Well-Known Member

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    thanks guys, thats awesome!
     
    Mikie, kioti and knucklebuster like this.
  15. knucklebuster

    knucklebuster Well-Known Member

    Location:
    34.2295° N, 117.2257° W
    Name:
    Dave
    Current Bike:
    Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail
    Thanks Jim, always good to work with you. Seemed like we got some good stuff done, hopefully the drains will help get the water off the troublesome spots before this next round of rain, and no one will lose their front wheel in one of those sinkholes (couldn't believe how big and deep they were). Felt good to move the blood and sweat a little, but dang my energy level took a dive at the end there....

    A few pics...
    Sinkhole #1 before/after
    IMAG1497.jpg
    IMAG1500.jpg

    Sinkhole #2 before/after
    IMAG1504.jpg
    IMAG1508.jpg

    Upper section before/after (but not quite done yet)
    IMAG1520.jpg
    IMAG1524.jpg
    IMAG1527.jpg
     
    littlewave, mike, ridinrox and 17 others like this.
  16. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    '20 Pivot Firebird 29
    Awesome - you guys are my heroes!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: I'm ready to dig on Sunday. :cool:
     
    Mikie, knucklebuster and kioti like this.
  17. Cyclotourist

    Cyclotourist iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Redlands
    Name:
    David
    Current Bike:
    Tallboy Upgrade
    Nice work, guys!
     
    Mikie, knucklebuster and kioti like this.
  18. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    I love your enthusiasm! But I keep seeing rain in the forecast.. And this trail's pretty slippery when wet. Not to mention the clay soil sticking to shovels, tampers, etc.. I"ll keep Sunday open if possible, but hoping for rain and planning to get out there when it clears.

    I'd like to work on the trail on Saturday, but have an annual Forest Service training meeting. I wish they didn't have them in the middle of trail work season because there always seems to be digging needed. In this case, I'd improve drainage before Sunday's predicted rain to lessen further damage. :stop:
     
    ridinrox, herzalot, Mikie and 3 others like this.
  19. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    Awesome! Did you see the little marker in photo 6 on that branch/trunk "bonsainut was here"? Because me and that wood almost had a close personal relationship :)
     
    Mikie likes this.
  20. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    Hit me up next week Jim!
     
    Mikie likes this.
  21. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    Consider yourself hit: <jim_jennings@cox.net>. ;) Contact me tomorrow for Monday details. The same applies to anyone else who's interested.. email me and I'll know how many tools to bring and tell you where and when to meet. Thanks! :thumbsup:
     
    Mikie likes this.
  22. jimmymats

    jimmymats Member

    Location:
    Redondo Beach, CA
    Name:
    James Matsubayashi
    Current Bike:
    Ibis Mojo 3
    Great job! I rode Meadows up and down yesterday, and it was great. Many thanks!
     
    Mikie, herzalot, kioti and 1 other person like this.
  23. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    Day 2: My friend Steve and I took advantage of great digging conditions after yesterday's rain got some more work done. We finished a turn that Dave and I started, filled some ruts, and re-built a wide, bermed turn.

    Here's the wide turn made narrower:

    IMG_3506.JPG IMG_3508.JPG

    IMG_3510.JPG
     
    Faust29, Danimal, CarlS and 15 others like this.
  24. tortoise

    tortoise Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Cave Creek, AZ
    Name:
    Tom
    That looks really nice! Good job!
     
    Danimal, Mikie, kioti and 1 other person like this.
  25. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    '20 Pivot Firebird 29
    You are a legend, Mr. Jennings! Thank you! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
    Danimal, Mikie and kioti like this.
  26. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    BonsaiNut and I are meeting at the Ranger Station parking lot at 9:30am tomorrow morning if anyone would care to join us. We'll drive to the base and walk up from the bottom. An email to me at <jim_jennings@cox.net> will let us know to expect you. Thanks!
     
    Danimal, littlewave, mike and 3 others like this.
  27. ridinrox

    ridinrox Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Fullerton
    Name:
    Roxanne
    Current Bike:
    '16 Giant Trance Advance
    Well done gentlemen ... :inlove::inlove::inlove:
     
    kioti and Mikie like this.
  28. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    Jim and I spent the day working on Meadows. In addition to being a truly nice guy, he shared his green tea with me, so I am a much more mellow, introspective dude! I think I can even understand Mike now!

    I'm sure Jim will share some photos. I am excited about hitting the trail and riding some of the work.

    By the way... in a secret location on the trail I buried a penny. If you find it, it's YOURS!

    Oh and we met the coolest biker from Canada. He was shaking our hands and fist-bumping us and really inflated our egos so we think we are MUCH better people than we were before! You will need permission to ride with us now! Awesome!
     
    Mikie, Faust29, mtnbikej and 8 others like this.
  29. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    Day 3: Yep, Greg (BonsaiNut) joined me today and we continued the improvement progression down the trail, concentrating on rutted turns. Greg's a natural and used his samurai rake to tame rain-damaged turns into zen-garden goodness! All it cost me was some green tea and frenzied pick work to stay ahead of him. :D

    Ranger Joanne hiked the trail this morning to check its condition and seemed very happy with all our work.

    Here are "some" of the turns we worked on:

    A rut like this on each of the turns we fixed...
    P3310253.jpg

    Looking down same turn a short while later:
    P3310258.jpg

    And another..
    P3310262.jpg

    The zen grasshopper himself (fueled up on green tea and with apparent aura)...
    P3310266.JPG

    And lastly.. before--with a big rut on the "inside" line:
    P3310269.JPG

    And wah-lah! No more rut!
    P3310272.JPG

    The dirt's still good so I'll be going back tomorrow to continue the work. Working solo unless someone wants to help me.. And believe me, I need the help! Email's <jim_jennings@cox.net>. Thanks!
     
  30. knucklebuster

    knucklebuster Well-Known Member

    Location:
    34.2295° N, 117.2257° W
    Name:
    Dave
    Current Bike:
    Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail
    Much thanks Jim and Bonsai (and green tea)
     
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