Joplin 3-Hour Club

As long as there's a Cholla 5-Minute Club, why not?

Any route seems like fair game, as long as the loop or lolli is ridden. The classic short way is parking at the wash and going up Holy Jim to Upper Joplin/Buckthorn. About two miles of Trabuco Creek Rd can be eliminated by parking up at the Holy Jim lot.

Using the latter route described above, I'm still chipping away at it. I started at 4 hours and, on my Bronson, got it down to 3:10 after a couple around 3:15. Here is, essentially the route (subtract the lolli stem, which is 2 miles of riding):
http://www.geoladders.com/show_route.php?route=43090

So just for the hell of it today I took the El Mariachi out for its goodbye ride. Fresh off bikepacking duty, I just stripped the bags off and swapped grips and saddle. I figured the place I can save time will be the climbs, and the EM should help there, and the light tires will help more on the climbs than the worn, hardpack-design will hurt descending.

Felt pretty good climbing, shifted up every time I could get away with it. Descending dry and loose Joplin was just reckless fun. It took quite a bit of work and focus to keep it upright through the chunder fields, and I gave up a couple dabs in dumb spots, but I aced all the hard parts with those big, smooth hoops wandering around in every loose section. A good pounding it was, including a silly and inconsequential washout coming down Cadillac. The recent forest road grading helped keep some speed heading up to the lot. I scored a 3:02 for my effort – surprising, with the struggling descent but amazing that the bike I just toured 2500 self-supported miles could get through today's ride like it did.

I used to barely survive Joplin runs, so it's kinda fun to session it. I have a cold beverage for any IMTBT member who cracks 3 hours. Some of you monsters probably already have! Or could without issue, I'm sure.

Ride on

 

Interesting.......

So was the 3:02 overall time, or was it just the moving time?

The loop is HJ/Peak/Joplin/OC/Cadilac/HJ?

I looked back and we did a 3:51 moving time at a social pace.....but that was down to the Luge, then down Live Oak back to Rose Cantina.

 

3 hours sounds good for that ride, but I bet you can do better.

The concept of minimal-tread tires for the Joplin/Cadillac descent sounds boundary pushing, but I agree, the climbing advantage is hard to beat if you can stay upright on the descent.

I got my fastest time ever on the STT/Luge loop by running (nearly) smooth tires. I was also chasing a guy with a head start, so he was my rabbit. The descents required extra care, but the combination of pavement and non-technical climbing made the PR inevitable. Harder to achieve with smooth tires on HJ, MD, Joplin and Cadillac, so kudos.

Those GDMBR miles have given you a superb base, but I know from my roadie and bike touring days, that training is specific. A 3-hour mountain bike time trial is generally going to involve higher intensity climbing than all-day touring. Training for the HJ/MD intensity and duration will make you faster, if that's what you're after.

 

The only time I rode this route, from the bottom of Cadillac to the peak took me 3:49 Of course, it WAS two weeks after the big rains of December, 2010, so I was riding through 2' streams, etc, and was by myself, and the mountain lions were dropping from oak limbs everywhere... Joplin was unrideable in many spots - 3' deep washouts that I couldn't even HAB through. Had to carry my bike on my shoulders

What Main Divide looked like on that ride:

 

J, it's my overall time which is 2-3 minutes more than my moving time. My only stops were to fetch the small can of Coke from my pack and slam it once I got past the flies at MD, move elbow pads from bars to arms, and move my seat four times. Other than that I kept rolling (or trying to roll). The loop I do is HJ parking-HJ-MD-UpperJ-Jop-Caddy-Trab Creek-HJ parking; nothing extra at all.

I saw your ride in there and was not surprised you popped that one off casually and quickly. I'll have to add the Luge sometime...


Thanks for the push, Jim . There's no doubt that the GD gave me the legs to do the climbing, but yea, I was getting full-body worked. What happened to sitting on the seat, gleefully coasting downhill? The Bonty XR-3 in front gave a valiant performance by surviving, but was clearly out of its element. Maxxis Ardent Race in rear, not really too bad, even in the loosest.


Good stuff, Bonsai. "Dropping from oak limbs everywhere"...LOL!!!!!

 

By the way... in case there was any confusion in what I wrote... it took me 3:49 ONE WAY to the peak. The whole trip took me 5:13 including resting (aka sleeping) time at the peak. I think snails did the route faster that day... but it remains my favorite peak summit just because the conditions were so gnarly.

Brrrr.... January 9 on Santiago Peak. All by myself... don't wanna be... all byyyyyy myyyy self....



I'm on the... top of the world lookin' down on creation and the only explanation I can find....



Remember when Santiago Truck Trail looked this green?

 

So if you didn't stop at all, you'd be sub-3.

I wonder if your Great Divide conditioning won't drop your Bronson time to within striking distance? Additional thoughts are.. elbow pads on wrists or elbows for climb, small or no pack on your back for easier breathing, small bottle of sugary espresso or jolt drink of choice accessible while riding, and dropper post to eliminate stops for adjusting seat height.

Boom. 2:59:59.

 

I like your thinking, Jim. I'm obviously not too polished at minimizing time...

The Bronson would absolutely shave time on anything DH; the Divide legs may be able to still push the climbs. Light elbow pads on from the start; accessible snack. Thanks, coach...I gotta get my shite together!


Sidebar: I allocated a couple of my 273 hours of riding time on the Divide to dreaming about doing Joplin 2x in a day. Because it's there! Then I saw it on geoladders. Oh, sh_...that's gonna hurt

 

For clarity... are we talking about going all the way up to the tippy top of the peak? (foot on the Santiago elevation marker?) Or taking the cut-off around the back of the peak that drops you off at the Joplin trail head? There is easily a 20 minute difference (if not more). (Why am I talking myself into doing this )



Any way I slice it, I'm not coming close to 3 hours. Splicing together times from other rides nets me out somewhere between 3:30 and 3:50. I won't be in the 3 hour club, but it will be a fun ride to see where I would shake out.

 

Taking the road all the way around....don't have to physically bag the Peak....but taking the short cut doesn't count.

 

First, @BonsaiNut , those socks are WAY too white. Did you get choppered up there? Secondly, this sounds fun.

 

I get more comments about my socks... Some dude laughed at my socks at Cocktail Rock up San Juan Trail a while back. He was all in spandex with fancy high-end logos, and there I was with my thick white cotton socks. All I can say is that my feet never get cold

 

My Garmin tells me this route is 18.9 miles and 4900 feet of climbing. This includes going all the way to the elevation marker so you can subtract .1 miles

Interestingly, the ride up Harding to Santiago peak (out and back) is almost the same climb (4830), but a lot farther at 27.8 miles.

Not sure I believe that Geoladders ascent data - 6345 feet of climbing when Santiago Peak is 5689 altitude? Are you starting below sea level?

 

Not that it matters cuz I'm not a big fan of Joplin, but I thought I saw Upper Joplin in Mike's description, aka shortest way around. Or at least most expedient. As opposed to Cholla 5-minute route, lots of options. My old fave's were up Harding and down Joplin/STT to Modjeska Grade and back to the bottom of Harding. I also preferred Lower Joplin to Cadillac, but not sure that's in the cards for the time being. Too bad cuz it's a great trail.

And Mike, you're plenty efficient. I just watched a lot of road racing with feed zones and team cars, and applied those concepts to my ITTT (individual trail time trials) rides. Only thing I couldn't ever get a handle on was being super fast.

 

You're telling me, pal. DNA is a real B!

 

Bingo.
Still fun to see what we got, eh?

BTW, I like this is ride of yours, because 1) its a natural loop, 2) it's got a challenging but doable climb, and 3) the descent is all kinds of technical. Plus, the way you've set it up, there's that bit of road climb at the end where you can put your head down and charge for the line.

Pretty cool.

 

Ummmm, if you ever go downhill along the route, you have to go back up to re-gain that altitude.

If there's no noticeable downs along the route, then yes, I would question the Geoladders data.

 

No question about it! It's like waking up hungover, being outa shape or having a terrible bike. Lack of perfection is part of the difficulty. Racing the clock is fun. One can be a hack and and not look too bad...

 

The whole way from the bottom of Cadillac up the canyon, up Holy Jim, up Main Divide is one long climb. Once you come off the peak, there are no noticeable uphills on the route, with the exception of a short climb out of Old Camp at the bottom of Joplin, but it might be .25 miles(?) You can see on the Geoladders ride profile it is one beautiful cone - straight up, straight down (with the exception of the climb out of Old Camp). No way that climb out of Old Camp adds 1400 feet of ascent to the ride (though sometimes it can FEEL like 1400 feet when it is actually probably closer to 200).

 

Wouldn't surprise me if Geoladders is getting subjective. My bathroom scale does it every morning.

 

Yes....Geoladders is good for the basic route....but I do not trust any of the routes for elevation +/-. Especially some of the older "official" routes. Many of these were done with Garmin 205/305 that were not the most precise. In addition, the way it is set up....regardless of what your Garmin says at the end of the ride....Geo will subtract about 10% of the elevation.

 

There are several downhills along the way, but I think Geoladders is inflated. The only time I got 6500 to the peak was when I added on Live Oak in O'Neill and Dreaded in Whiting before Harding/Peak.

I think Strava puts it at 5000 for an out and back from the wildlife sanctuary. I get about the same in planning for Mike's route. Aren't all of the ascents to the peak similar in climbing numbers? It's the distance that differs...

And yeah... I'd join this merry band. I'd lose the time on the downs, but it sounds like fun.

 

As you know better than just about anyone, it all depends where you park and where you start the ride.

Harding out and back to the peak: 4850 feet (give or take), 27.7 miles

Start at the bottom of Trabuco Canyon, ride up past Cook's Corner, over the ridge on Modjeska Grade, up Modjeska Canyon, THEN up Harding to the peak and down the back side and out via Holy Jim and Trabuco Canyon: 5770 feet, 34.2 miles. (Which just proves to me how off the Geoladders ascent figure for the Cadillac loop is)

Or the quickest, easiest route that I know, from the trailhead on Maple Springs (out and back): 3440 feet, 24.1 miles (with the first 3 miles and 1000 feet of climbing being on pavement). This because you drive your car all the way up Silverado Canyon in order to get to the trailhead, and start the ride at a much higher elevation.

 

Unless you're like me...I always start from Pelzer's Xmas tree farm. A bonus 5 miles and 900 feet.

 

Very true...

I think of the start points differently... Like the Maple Springs climb really starts at the entry to the canyon, which puts it in line with the others, all can be done in the 4500 range. I "cheated" a 1000 feet last night by driving to the parking lot, and not starting at the tree farm.

edit: Scissors beat me to it.

 

Put differently, once you are standing on Santiago Peak, it is faster / steeper to go out the back way via Holy Jim all the way to the bottom of Trabuco Canyon, than it is it go out via Harding to the Wildlife Sanctuary.

To the bottom of the canyon is 12.4 miles. To the wildlife sanctuary is 13.9 miles.

I have the bottom of Trabuco Canyon at 1100 feet elevation. The wildlife sanctuary is at 1400, but you have a couple of ups and downs to get there.

 

I'd love to hit the dirt with ya, @Faust29, time be damned. I spend too much effort trying not to crash to run the DH fast, anyway. Another way to forget about going fast:

http://www.geoladders.com/show_route.php?route=2024

Become preoccupied with survival! I will (try to) do this thing soon. Just because it looks audacious and ridiculous.


For whatever boring reason, I gravitate to this kind of repetitive sessioning on certain outings that were initially testpieces for me. The Long Climb at Tahquitz...epic the first time; slow, bumbly, nearly benighted, cold, traumatized. Started rope-soloing it for speed and eventually got it in 4:37 car-to-car from Humber. Then did it ropeless a couple times. Okay, point proven. Then the West Face of Leaning Tower...3 brutal days first time, whimpering like a puppy...then did it at least every year for a good decade or so, without stopping (8 hrs to 20+ hrs), solo, at night, in winter conditions, with chicks, yadayada. I'm sure I've done it 20 times, and in every month of the year. Yeager Mesa...same; swore it off after my first time falling my way down it, now look forward to it anytime and do it regularly, just because.

It's not the best way to improve, but it's fun to get something wired and try to make it casual after you got your ass handed to you on it. People who are really good at these activities eat it up the first try. I'm not that good, so I have to try more.

 

Yeah, I hear you. At one point on STR I volunteered to lead a group to Santiago Peak who had never been there. We had an animated discussion about the route, and some people were sending me PM's saying "for the love of god start them at the Maple Springs trail head or they'll never make it"

So that is how I came up with the "absolutely easiest way to summit Santiago" route

 

Depends on how fast you can descend. I can almost guarantee that I could cover the extra mile heading down Harding faster than going down HJ.

 

Now we have two bets! Mike's 3 hour Joplin loop and which descent is faster from the peak! Sounds like a busy winter season shaping up. I think the 3rd bet should be a traverse of the mountains from end to end.