Frame sizing, FS/HT

Hey, guys,

My two bikes, the Smash and Pedälhead, are the same size, medium. Dimensions are close to the same, by design. Same wheelbase. While the Smash feels right – like I’m just at the upper end of the size as far as length – the PH feels much smaller (length-wise), too small for a proper trail bike. I have not yet tinkered with the PH cockpit. It seems so short with a 90 mm stem that I really have no hope that it will work. (Even with that 90 mm stem it feels like I want 10-15 mm more reach. It’s designed around a 50 mm stem.)

I was really surprised how different the two bikes feel, size-wise. The PH worked great on the AZT, but for pure trail duty, I can’t imagine it hitting the spot long term. The trail rides I’ve done on it set up this way confirm that feeling.

I’m thinking ditch the PH rather than trying with cockpit changes to get it to work for trail. It seems that stubby. Premature assumption? Giving up too quickly?

Your thoughts and expertise are appreciated!

 

Amazing how with all the spreadsheet analyzing, tape measuring, and even eyeballing, the ride of a bike often comes down to the "feel." I couldn't get my medium Stumpjumper hardtail to really click-fit wise so I have started riding large frames. Maybe an upsize in the future. The trend towards slacker geometry seems to have pushed this "tweener" sized rider over the edge to Large...and loving it!

If you keep the PH, you can probably get some deals on good 100mm stems as no one really wants them anymore-except roadies...

 

I generally start with knee position over the BB. If the SA of the Pedalhead's steeper, maybe you can get more room by moving the seat back.

 

Sounds like geometry.....the difference in reach has the Smash 20mm longer than the Pedalhead.

 

Are you using a layback seatpost?

You said the HT worked well for AZT. Can you elaborate?

 

Sheesh, missed this.

Yes on layback post.

"Well"...meaning it was comfortable enough to ride all day for many days, and handled sufficiently through testy DH sections. Some bikes or configs (like my FS) might have been able to handle the downs better, but at the expense of overall efficiency where so much of the trail is tamer.

 

Then it does sound like the frame is too small (using a long stem and a setback seatpost).

 

Given the chance, a custom option would have been nice, but would have cost me a few hundy more. But I have to say that the wide bar and short stem I got courtesy of @mtnbikej and spacer adjustment (since my original post here) made a very big difference. As in, put me in the range of the size. Super short torso and long arms – 800 mm bar FTW. My rigid setback post of choice is not very set back, so it would not be hard to eek out a few more mm when I commit to an offset dropper (I think). (Edit: Fall Line dropper available in 25 mm setback, which is at least 10 mm more setback that what I'm using now.)

 

There’s the key!

 

100% geo related. The smash has amazing GEO for a FS 29r. Very progressive and the type of geo that makes reach numbers nearly irrelevant and almost shifting back to ETT type of measurement comparisons (yay the old days). Steep STAs are super helpful to combat sag on FS bikes. Most of us that have experienced the longer reach, but steeper sta's phenomenon would say that this is a good thing.

In the case of the pedal head, that STA is a bit on the steep side for me with regards to hardtails. Since there is no suspension sag, the reach never gets shorter and you really don't need as steep of a seat tube angle. For reference, check out the STA on the chameleon and the ibis HT. The pedal head is not alone in this... the honzo is the same way, and that bike in a size large feels tiny to me. Where as with most other bikes, a Large feels just fine.