Electric mountain bikes

Just wondering what everyone here thinks about this topic. Me, I don't understand it. I keep hearing this argument that people with disabilities need them to share the same trails as the rest of us, but my opinion is that if you are so badly handicapped that you need an assisted bicycle, you really don't belong on remote rugged trails far from any help if something were to go wrong. Myself, I completely crushed both my heels 10 years ago and I can not run or jump (HAB sucks for me) I had to learn how to walk again in a swimming pool, was in a wheel chair for 6 months, blah blah blah.... Mountain biking has been a long achievement to get back to where I am now, but I did it without an electric assist mountain bike. My point being: the disability argument is bogus. I see no reason to have electric assist mountain bikes other than to put a motor on something to go faster (Strava!) or for really lazy people to get out and say that they went mountain biking.

With new electric assist technology blending into bike frame designs, it is going to be harder and harder to spot these bikes. How are you going to keep them off of the trails? how could you even enforce a "no E-bike" rule? Is this gong to be Pandora's box? :shock:

 

I am different than many in that I do not even mind sharing trails with motos. I am not talking local parks that most people equate to MTBing...I am talking about backcountry trails. I have seen the lack of clearing deadfall and loss of trail in the Sierras after the motos where banned, they where the ones keeping heritage trails clear. I can give many examples of trails that no longer exist because motos where banned. My feeling is that the decision of allowing electric bikes should be a decision left to each land manager. I hate blanket policies that do not take local needs into consideration. Maybe the trails around Leisure World should allow electric bikes I don't need to ride there but how cool would it be seeing a bunch of old folks out enjoying themselves. How old are you Carl? This old MTBer needs to remind himself that he is not 60 anymore. Your perspectives change as you get older.

Here is the bike I want. <a class="postlink" href="https://www.electricbike.com/ktm-egnition/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://www.electricbike.com/ktm-egnition/</a> at 80 lbs and 20 mile range I will wait.

Dean

 

By putting an electrical assist in a bike, by definition, turns it into a motorized bike, thus are banned from most local trails and bike paths.

Personally the e-bikes don't belong on trails. Like Carl said above, if you are that incapacitated that you need a motor on you mtn bike.....how are you even gonna be able to handle that beast if the trail gets any kind of technical....or even just heading downhill. The newer e-bikes may be lighter....but the older ones were easily 50-60 lbs.

Bike paths also offer their own issues....we get scoffed at because we ride too fast on say SART to the beach. Now put someone on a e-bike that can easily cruise at those higher speeds....and it just sounds like a recipe for accidents.

Wanna cruise along in the bike lane on the road...go for it. There is where I see that they serve their purpose.


Just my opinion. You don't have to like it.

 

Dean, I'm 43 and trust me, I feel like I'm 63. I played way too hard when I was younger and really had a life changing experience with my ankle injuries.

I get where you are coming from, but again... I feel like if you are so fragile that you can't pedal a bike up a hill, how can you handle the rest of it? I mean, mountain biking isn't just pedaling. If someone with a disability or poor fitness can get 15 miles into the back country with assistance, what happens when the battery dies or has a mechanical? how in the heck is that person going to push out a 80 lbs machine? I just disagree with the argument that people with disabilities need them. You really shouldn't be mountain biking if you are that badly disabled. there are plenty of parks, paths, and streets to ride with or without assist. I'm not saying E-bikes don't have a place. I just don't think they belong on most of the trails I know and I think they should be classified as Motorized vehicles.

 

From a Forum owners perspective controversial debates such as this drive membership, ha hah! :lol:

Personally at this time I am adamantly against E-Bikes, but that most likely will change as I get older and less able to climb as well as I do now. As well, I have found that my personal closed mindedness has hindered me from exploring awesome things:
1) Avidly against Dropper Posts - now I own one and love it! Why did I wait so long!!! :|
2) Avidly against 29'ers, Why? I DON'T KNOW!!! Probably love it if I would take the time to give it a chance. 26'er for 25 years...

E-Bikes fit in to that same category for me.

When you bring up STRAVA and personal achievement I immediately begin to think the word "Cheating" on an E-Bike.

I have met some MTB'ers on the trail in their 70's on some sweet rides and think, "Hey, I'm 55 and I still got something to look forward to."

My experience with Moto's up to this point has been, "Great! There is another section I have to repair from all their damage to my sweet singletrack!"

I want to share the trail, I want to stay open minded. But I think if we are going to call it Mountain Biking . . . it stays human powered exclusively. Otherwise, get a Moto and hit the track!

 

OK, I'm only posting this video because the girl in it is really cracking me up. it's really funny how they keep flashing back to the image of this girl walking around...

but here, this doesn't look like a good thing for the future of mountain biking IMO:

http://vimeo.com/74544670

 

Whats the point of even having pedals on that/those thing(s)?

They may as well just be a motorbike-lite. IMnotsoHO

And in the rush for even better strava times, this is really gonna end well...

 

^ I agree-

I seen them at Whiting doing some serious damage. Not so much damage on the trail it self, only on Srava. Of course they get flagged.

May be kool to watch, but not for me = )

 

I notice that;

1) i need a double crown fork. apparently my single crown isn't strong enough for type of trail on this vid!
<a class="postlink" href="http://vimeo.com/74544670" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://vimeo.com/74544670</a>

2) I don't care about my Strava rating, so it's OK if you cheat. ( Ya, cheat on strava, there's a laugh!)
3) This effectively makes them "motorized" and will be banned from many trails by default.
4) totally cool. If I want to do a Mtb 40 miler epic and don't have the legs for it. ( which I don't )
5) I'll reserve judgement. They're coming like it or not.
6) my emotional reaction is you "got to earn the DH by doing the climb", they are Evil I say, EVIL!

And best for DH guys...
7) Get more runs at Fontana by not taking the shuttle!!!! ( Calling Hrz!!)

 

Not much of a debate if we all agree they are for sissy's! :lol:
(I'm so proud of you! Momma brought yah up with sum learnin')

 

Then I won't post that they look like they would be a blast and much easier to do shuttle runs!

 

Propably a good idea Ed..... :|

 

heres what im worried about:

ebikes start getting ridden on trails in county parks or other areas where mtbs re allowed but motor vehicles (including dirtbikes/motos) are prohibited

land manager says, "those are not allowed, they are motor vehicles"

Some smartassy ebike rider lawyers up and tries to claim "its a bicycle not a motor vehicle"

Land manager: "Ok, then all 'bicycles' are prohibited now"

Long shot, but i dont think the popularization ebikes bodes well for mtb access in the future. I saw 3 of them at the sales floor at Laguna Cyclery. aargh.

 

Those kranked bikes make too much power to fall under the definition of "bicycle" by federal & state laws. However, there are plenty that do.

Having gone down the e-mtb journey myself, I've come to learn that extra wattage doesn't equate to skill. If you cant tear it up on a pedal bike, you ain't gonna be able to do it on an ebike. Also the price point of most of these rigs are way beyond what a beginner would consider spending.

Bottom line, the people who can bring out the most in those bikes aren't the types of people that would buy them in the first place.

I still have access to a 1000W freeride rig if anyone wants to see how they really are. It does fall under CA's definition of a e-bike which is not classified as a "motorized vehicle." That being said, technically it's legal anywhere in CA that doesn't specifically prohibit "motorized bicycles" or e-bikes.

For those of you who think you can tear up trails like moto are very mistaken. Even with 1000W of power, it simply makes a bike feel lighter than it is or that you're an incredible athlete. Reliance on the motor alone will make you look dumb as hikers pass you going up hill. :lol:

Trek and Giant are using Bosch and Panasonic mid-drives that are pedal assist only and produce about 250W~350W. It doesn't seem like they're going to bring their stuff out to the US due to all the hate against e-bikes here, but they're making a killing in Europe and Asia.

http://www.ebike-mtb.com/en/test-report-e-mountainbike-giant-full-e-1/
http://www.ebike-mtb.com/en/first-look-trek-powerfly-fs-full-suspension-e-mountainbike/

In the end, regardless what you're riding for whatever reason, it all comes down to common courtesy. I highly doubt e-mtb is going to catch on in the states due to cycling being joined at the hip with fitness here. However, if it does I really don't see a problem as the power regulation makes it almost pointless to have one. :lol:

 

"Having gone down the e-mtb journey myself, I've come to learn that extra wattage doesn't equate to skill. If you cant tear it up on a pedal bike, you ain't gonna be able to do it on an ebike. Also the price point of most of these rigs are way beyond what a beginner would consider spending."

"Bottom line, the people who can bring out the most in those bikes aren't the types of people that would buy them in the first place." ( skyungjae)

That sums it up for me, a good rider is an athelete! I think it would be fun for sure but, I would be afraid of gaining a few pounds in the long run, and losing fitness. I believe in kicking your own ass, because everybody deserves a beat down! Some more than others :lol: I guess they would be good for old men who have givin in.

 

As a old man that has givin' in I support this message. Believe me we are all one good accident away from needing a e-bike.

Dean

 

You must have bit it pretty bad Dean? Hey my wife is talking about an ebike, her knee is shot, so I'm not against people who would need it to extend what they used to enjoy in their youth. Now if your young and lazy, than to each there own.

 

The whole reason why I have access to an ebike is because the owner is simply too lazy to ride it. Hahaha

I don't think we have a lot to worry about. Guys/gals who buy/build ebikes due to laziness will maybe ride once or twice before they realize they still gotta work hard and the couch is more comfortable. :lol:

Being more of a gravity rider myself, I was under the impression that it would act like a shuttle, but it's just way simpler and easier/sometimes faster to pedal up a hill in a granny than to throttle and worry about the chain snapping from the extra wattage or breaking something else. :x

Regardless the reason, I don't mind sharing the trail with ebikes or even those that exceed the legal power limit so long as they're silent, and the rider isn't riding like a jackass.

Actually, those 2400W (2.4kW~3HP) Kranked bikes in OP's first post have an annoyingly loud planetary gear box, so I would not want that on a mulitiuse trail.

I've seen a handful of BH ebikes on the Fullerton Loop, but I'm pretty sure other riders assumed they were regular mountain bikes. They use a silent 350W hub motor and have an integrated downtube battery.
(looks like BH added a larger motor )
What I find hard to understand is that a 350W motor that's direct drive doesn't provide much assist on climbing. The added weight and cost with such little climbing assist makes me think money would have been better spent on a carbon hardtail w/ a granny ring. I'm guessing that's why BH added a larger motor on the new BH Emotion Neo Jumper. The motor on previous models were smaller in diameter than the cassette.

I digress. Love, hate, don't care about e-mtb... we can all find a way to share the trail without threat to access.

EDIT:

I guess I've been out of the e-bike loop for a while. It seems like BH replaced the Neo Jumper with the Evo Jumper in both 29er and 27.5 varieties with a more straight downtube:
http://www.bhbikes.com/en/bicycles/ebikes/evo-jumper-29--ev785.html
http://www.bhbikes.com/en/bicycles/ebikes/evo-jumper-27-5--ev665.html

BH also looks as though they've jumped on the Bosch mid-drive bandwagon. I guess people were complaining that those tiny hub motors had little to no assist on hills. :lol:
http://www.bhbikes.com/en/bicycles/ebikes/xenion-jumper-27-5--eb665.html

... but yeah, at these price tags, there are probably 15 pedal bikes I'd rather buy if I had the money.

 

Hi Y'all,

This past weekend I just completed my 2005 Jamis Dakar E-Bomination. More details, including Strava results, at this link below:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=64827

Don't worry, I much prefer riding my 8" travel Kumicho on the Floop or anywhere else for that matter. The additional 750W at my disposal on my E-bomination did not help much in terms of making me faster; however, it was like turning on an infinite stamina cheat on a video game. :lol:

Anyhow, since my commuter is now done, I'll be returning the black Stink-E I've been borrowing. I'll probably still have access to if if anyone wants to try it out and actually dispel any misconceptions of e-mtb/e-bikes. The difference of e-mtb and e-moto is probably best compared to the difference between a golf cart and a Tesla Model S.

I would lend out my Jamis, but the PAS (Pedal Assist System) sucks balls on dirt and makes it very difficult to shift gears without shutting the assist completely (the added load from the motor makes the drivetrain very crunchy. :x

 

It has begun ...


Moab Bans Electric Bikes on Mountain Bike Trails

http://www.vitalmtb.com/news/news/M...ed:+VitalMtbSpotlights+(Vital+MTB+Spotlights)

From the BLM site:

 

It makes sense to do so. I'm guessing a handful of rich people on e-motorcycles made fools of themselves or got someone hurt.

I didn't think BLM or federal land in general would make this sort of move before state or county gov't lands.

 

Erghhhh...
After reading the Moab Link I sensed a mixed bag of opinions riding the fence of Freedom and RIghts versus the purest MTB'er objection.

How about this perspective:
Trail Advocacy is tough enough for Mountain Bikes as a Trail User.I know that there are those that view Motorcycles as not an issue on the trails. I'm hesitant to jump on that view mostly from a selfish perspective that motorcycles really tear up the trails that I ride, cutting terraces and huge ruts into corners and switchbacks. But if I'm going to call myself an All Mountain MTB'er, then I should just let that go and call it erosion. I can hear them coming so there is not the same stealthy fear a hiker has of us while we bomb some singletrack.

My fear:
An E-Bike blends together a little HP (20mph is nothing to slough as insignificant), the appearance of a Mountain Bike, and the stealthy('er) silence that drives hikers and equestrians crazy with fear of being run over and not see it coming. Yeah, you can throw a bear bell on it. But my current perspective is that it will only drive a wedge further between Mountain Bikers and other Trail Users less mechanized (ie: Hikers and Horseback Riders) as they will just throw E-Bikes in there with the rest of the hooligan renegade Mountain Bikers eroding the countryside and all things ecological, terrorizing the hikers and equestrians, and consuming massive quantities of alcohol (or worse . . . . drugs!) becoming publicly belligerent, committing the usual raping of young innocent daughters of pastors, and pillaging of small mountain communities.

So that said, they can go do sterilized park setting trails, have a horn (beep beep!) to warn people out for a Sunday stroll, and, ride the Fully Loop! Oh no he di'int! :lol:

 

I'm curious if the ban is preemptive or are e-bikes really becoming that much of a nuisance. hahaha

Something like this makes me think either someone was acting a fool on an e-bike or someone got somewhere they wouldn't normally be able to go and needed park services to help get him out.

Even with an e-bike shop right next to the Floop, I'd still say maybe 1 out of 100 bikes might be an e-bike. Perhaps e-bike traffic in Moab is getting uncontrollable. I hear a lot of resort towns are interested in adding e-bikes to their rental fleets. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some businesses around that area that have e-bike rentals.

 

I still don 't get it.

Ebikes for the road - maybe on wide multi use path / trails / get people out and about = yes, I get it.

Ebikes for off-road, back country, remote trails = I don't get it for multiple reasons.

Ebikes set up like XC race bikes = I REALLY don't get it. oh wait, I do get it...... STRAVA!!!! :roll:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.designboom.com/technology/cube-elite-hybrid-bike-eurobike-08-29-2014/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.designboom.com/technology/cu ... 8-29-2014/</a>

check out the fork! :shock:

 

I'm actually building an e-bike for a good friend so he can get back on the trails. I'm going to be sacrificing/cannibalizing my wife's e-bike/commuter for this project.



Almost 2 years ago, he suffered an injury during a soccer match where his femur blew out the back of his hip. He's since tried riding several times, but with great difficulty. The intent is to use the e-bike to rehab until his screwed in hip is strong enough to get him back on his Stumpy.

Unfortunately my wife's rig is way to small with a 15" frame, so we're looking at other platforms to retrofit this weekend.

We did ride the FLoop this past Wednesday, and he was called a cheater. :lol:

EDIT: I posted earlier about my Jamis Dakar E-Bomination. That system I used with pedal assist was sh!t. It would kick in power when you didn't need it, and the crank arm bolt would still come loose on that square taper regularly (even properly torqued). It was quickly dismantled and parted out. I decided then that I would not be pursuing anymore personal builds. After my wife's bike is sacrificed, there will likely be no more e-bikes in my home unless my wife REALLY wants one. She barely rides though. :lol:

 

E-Bike's should and shall all burn in hell...
There . . . . . . I said it.

Burn E-Bikes Burn!!! :twisted:

 

Hahahaha. A lot of them do catch on fire. The home built ones that are using LiPos.

 

that's very cool fixing up a bike for someone to help them out.

Like I said I'm not 100% against them

Fully loop= yea I guess. Cannell Plunge in Kern = no way

Someday I bet we will hear the headlines of a disabled person needing an airlift out because their e-mountain bike quit working out in the middle of no where.

 

can we just stop calling them e-mountain bikes and call them e-motorcycles?

 

I'm in agreement that e-bikes that don't meet the legal requirements to be defined as a bicycle should be called e-motorcycles. However, if all e-bikes should be called e-motorcycles, we should call segways e-motorcycles too. :lol: