Describe your brake upgrade experience

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by verdugist, Oct 19, 2015.


As a former Amazon Associate I continue to get screwed trying to stay qualified as an Amazon Affiliate. So I quit!


Want to donate to imtbtrails?

  1. verdugist

    verdugist Guest

    So my front brake started squealing like an ice pick on a blackboard (Avid Elixir 1) on Sunday during the rain. Actually scared the crap out of me as I've never heard that exact sound from my bike. And my rear brake squeals/honks as well for several rides now even after taking to LBS and they said sand paper the rotor (and maybe the pads???) which I've done at least twice to no positive affect.

    I'm wondering if the pads were not bedded in properly after I installed them ~250 miles ago. Which I did attempt to bed in properly by riding fast and modulating down to stop like 10-20 times. Maybe if the rotor is already warped then it will be an issue no matter what (I used to ride the brakes down the hills when I first started :bang:).

    Anyways, it seems that SRAM has given up on the Elixir line and has moved to Guide RS/RSC which are pretty expensive so perhaps Shimano or Magura is a better option (but the high-end stuff is very expensive and not sure I'd need that as I don't race).

    Has anybody actually changed the brake system on a bike they own? How was the experience? And I'm talking replacing the levers, lines, calipers and rotors. And what about the brake bleed, are these new brake systems pre-bled?

    Or is it not worth the time/effort (or even more costly to have LBS perform the install) and better to wait and just upgrade to a bike with a better spec/kit?

    I've seen the more expensive brakes have 4 pistons per caliper and mine have 2 pistons per caliper so I'd imagine the former would have better stopping power/performance.
     
  2. rojomas

    rojomas Member

    Location:
    Kookamongus
    Name:
    Oxx
    Current Bike:
    Carbon Intense Tracer 275
    Most systems come bled and assembled so all you do is unbolt the old, bolt in the new. It's that simple
     
    verdugist and Mikie like this.
  3. tfitz

    tfitz Member

    Name:
    tom fitz
    I have installed BB7 brakes on all my family's bikes I have had to readjust the calipers when installing new pads. I also removed the rotor to sand.
     
    verdugist and Mikie like this.
  4. verdugist

    verdugist Guest

    "Make sure you have I-spec II shifters if you are planning on using the brake levers to mount the shifters. I have I-spec I-A and it's a
    No GO on compatibility. "

    http://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-XT-BR-M8000-Disc-Brake

    So apparently it may not be that straight-forward. I have no clue what "I-spec II shifters" are and never even heard of that in the last few months of massive mtn bike research I've done. I'm sure if you buy/install the XT group set it will be compatible but I don't want/need to do that.

    Perhaps I should ask the LBS if a particular brake system will be compatible with my bike first...
     
  5. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.
    You're thinking of an upgrade because your brakes squealed in the rain?

    The Avid 1s are not great brakes, but they provide quite a bit of stopping power, and aren't a bad option on an entry level bike. My Diamondback experience was a few years ago, and the Elixir 1s were on much higher end bikes at the time. I would have gladly traded the Tektros for a set of Elixirs!
     
    verdugist, Mikie and rojomas like this.
  6. verdugist

    verdugist Guest

    Ok thanks for chiming in. Sometimes I worry that my brakes will fail on me (and yes I'm pretty anal about checking tire pressure the nite before, checking pad wear, etc.) I've heard so many negative reviews about Avids (and usually it's the noise I guess, not reliability or stopping power) that I'm a little cautious I guess. Or if the line that connects the brake lever to the caliper may detach/rip somehow (I'm not sure this actually happens but if it does on the front brake that really sucks).

    This all goes back to when I was a kid and rode down the street from a hill to the bottom cul-de-sac and the chain had fallen out and no brakes installed on a cheap kid's bike (I know it's a different scenario but no stopping power is no stopping power). Kamikaze down animal road rash. :eek:

    Perhaps I'll use the last pair(s) of brake pads I have and then consider a new brake system install (or even a new bike). Seems I'm getting ~250 miles per pad set (metal).

    Coincidentally I contacted DB and they said they do not install Magura on any of their bikes. In the research I've done, seems no manufacturers offer Magura (although I'm probably wrong).
     
  7. Sasquatch9billion

    Sasquatch9billion iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    trinidad j. mendez
    I've had Elixir CR's on my bike for maybe 6-7 years. If the Elixir 1's have similar adjustability, I'd watch some youtube videos and play with them a bit. Once I got the hang of adjusting the pads (in/out) and centering the rotors, they've been excellent brakes. And that's saying a lot for seven-year-old bike components.
     
    verdugist likes this.
  8. verdugist

    verdugist Guest

    Elixir CR seem to be high(er)-end (more expensive and well-reviewed). Seems they have been discontinued as well b/c I don't see them on the SRAM/Avid website: https://www.sram.com/avid/family/elixir_group
    Interesting item to note is that the rotor for the Elixir 1 is different than the rotor for all the other brake systems in the Elixir line. I'm glad you had a good experience with them.
     
  9. GregMiester

    GregMiester Member

    Location:
    La Verne
    Name:
    Greg
    Current Bike:
    2014 Giant XTC Advanced 2
    I've had a couple Formula sets and Hayes sets over the years. Shimano XT's are the best I've used to date. I just changed my brake pads at about 700 miles and that's the only thing I've done to them. They work great, are quiet, and have a nice lever reach adjustment. They can be had at a very good price these days too!
     
    herzalot and verdugist like this.
  10. rojomas

    rojomas Member

    Location:
    Kookamongus
    Name:
    Oxx
    Current Bike:
    Carbon Intense Tracer 275
    Elixir 1 through 5 aren't that great, not much adjustibility. But just because a company has discontinued a line of product, it doesn't mean it was a bad product. It just means they moved on with a new product line. I've been running Avid Juicy's and Elixirs for many years and they're been plenty strong and reliable. I never really had the problem of squealing brakes that others seem to be having. I don't know what I did different, perhaps it was just the proper adjustments.

    Having said that, my new bike has XT's and are very strong too.
     
    herzalot and verdugist like this.
  11. verdugist

    verdugist Guest

    So a DB rep on chat said XT is ok to install on my DB bike. But the Deore XT line is confusing there are many sub-numbers/models. The latest seems to be M8000. Which model are you referring to GregMiester?
     
  12. verdugist

    verdugist Guest

    What about Magura? I think I know one guy who has Magura and he rides a Pivot 429 race bike. Probably overkill in my case. I'm not an expert but it seems it's better to use a brake with 4 pistons per caliper and DOT 5.1 fluid (or mineral oil?) But I've never ridden another bike so I don't know the practical differences....
     
  13. RS VR6

    RS VR6 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Valencia/Simi
    Name:
    Lee
    Current Bike:
    Banshee Shartfire/Chiner 29r
    There are still m785 (previous model) XT's around and on sale.
     
  14. GregMiester

    GregMiester Member

    Location:
    La Verne
    Name:
    Greg
    Current Bike:
    2014 Giant XTC Advanced 2
    Yep M785, good stuff!
     
  15. HBkites

    HBkites Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Huntington Beach
    Name:
    Sharone
    Current Bike:
    Why S7, Revel Rascal, Spark RC
    I swapped my avid XX with some Guide RS, and I love them. More power, low noise, great control.
    I found them online for less then$100 each.
     
  16. Varaxis

    Varaxis Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Perris
    Name:
    Dan Vu
    Current Bike:
    Yeti SB5c ('16 Yellow v1)
    I like SRAM/Avid brake stopping feel, but my main beef with them is the inconsistent lever pull distance on the ones without contact adjust. The rear tends to pull to the bars, while the front is fairly firm. I don't have that problem on Shimanos, where both levers pull to about halfway from full out to my knuckles. I "upgraded" by buying a cheap Shimano Alivio rear brakeset, keeping the Avid Elixir (1 or 3) front. Problem solved, for under $30.
     
    verdugist likes this.
  17. Danmtchl

    Danmtchl iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Bakersfield
    Name:
    Dan
    Current Bike:
    2020 Trek Fuel EX 9.7
     
    rojomas likes this.
  18. Danmtchl

    Danmtchl iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Bakersfield
    Name:
    Dan
    Current Bike:
    2020 Trek Fuel EX 9.7

    Rocky Mountain is specing Magura brakes on some of its 2016 models
     
  19. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    You cannot beat the Shimano XT Trail or XTR Trail in my opinion. Strong. Quiet. Great lever feel. Readily available. Sounds like the compatibility issue you are talking about at the top of this thread has to do with combining your shift levers with the brake levers - something that looks cool, but is not necessary.

    Avid Elixirs are finicky and tricky to keep them working well. The brakes probably won't fail catastrophically as you fear they might, but they will make howling, warbling and squealing sounds way more often than other brands. Ironically, I had two sets of Elixir 5 (or maybe 7s) on my DH bikes and never had a problem. I had the top of the line, carbon bling Elixir CR (or something like that) and I could never keep them quiet or adjusted properly. I got a smokin' deal on some XTR Trails when they were first introduced and have never looked back.

    I have demo'd two bikes with the new SRAM Guide brakes for a total of five days of riding and I was underwhelmed. Better than Elixirs, but not as good as the Shimanos. I have 2013 Avid XO Trails on my current DH bike, and I don't care for them much. The levers constantly need adjusting to keep the pad contact in the right spot, and they aren't that strong. 4 pistons don't necessarily work better than two.

    Finally, all brakes squeal or honk a little when wet.
     
    verdugist likes this.
  20. verdugist

    verdugist Guest

    I am currently experiencing the excessive level pull distance pullback on the rear. To the point where I need to use 2 fingers on rear and I don't like that (you lose control/stability on faster/rockier DH sections with 2 fingers on lever). If I use 1 finger on rear, the lever literally touches my other fingers on handlebar. It doesn't do this on the rear when you install fresh pads. I thought the whole point of these disc hydraulic brakes was for them to auto-adjust the pullback on the levers but maybe I'm wrong or maybe it depends on the brand/model/technology.

    I may just replace the pads soon prior to upgrading to XTs in transit.
     
  21. Danimal

    Danimal iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Mission Viejo
    Name:
    Dan
    Current Bike:
    Epic Evo
    Going down the Luge, my Elixir R's stopped working, went to the bars! Pump pump pump and it came back. Only to fail again a few seconds later.
    At the bottom, packed up the bike and went straight to the Path. Bought XTR trails, had them installed and never looked back. These brakes ROCK!!!

    Spendy? yes. but still cheaper than flying off the edge of the Luge!
     
  22. Danmtchl

    Danmtchl iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Bakersfield
    Name:
    Dan
    Current Bike:
    2020 Trek Fuel EX 9.7
    I don't "upgrade", I buy what I want. I have been buying Formula's for the last 5 years or so. I currently have the R1 lever and RX calipers, great combination. They are solid and have been reliable so far. I have also used the RX's, Oro K24( these were the best) and my current ones. I have been looking into the Magura MT5, if anyone has these please give me your feedback.
     
    verdugist and rojomas like this.
  23. GregMiester

    GregMiester Member

    Location:
    La Verne
    Name:
    Greg
    Current Bike:
    2014 Giant XTC Advanced 2
    Shimano FTW! :thumbsup:
     
  24. john_hovard

    john_hovard Guest

    1. 1999 - Magura Julie - Better than V-brakes

    2. 2001 - Shimano XT - Much better than Julie – very good

    3. 2009 – Shimano XT – Not much different than 2001 XT

    4. 2012 – Shimano SLX – Same as XT

    5. 2013 – Shimano Saint M820 – They are in a different league


    I forgot to mention mechanical brake on rear wheel, turn pedal backwards and the rear wheel block if you press hard enough, should have been number 0. As number 3½ I had a pair of Formula R1. Very light and excellent for 3 months. Then sent them back to Italy for service, they replaced with a new set as the ones I had were faulty. Great customer service. The new set lasted 3 - 4 months and then again was inconsistent. Put the XT from 2009 that came on the Ibis Mojo on again. The DOT fluid is poison, can be used to remove paint on your bike and need to be replaced now and then. Mineral oil is close to harmless. The Saint modulates fantastic and has braking power enough for my mountains.
     
    Varaxis, Cornholio, Faust29 and 3 others like this.
  25. Brakes do squeal sometimes.
    1. You got sand or dust embedded in the pads
    2. Oil contaminant on pads
    3. The caliper bolts were snug but not tight. Caliper slightly shifted under braking and is now off center of pads are now not parallel to rotor
    4. Rotor is badly grooved
    5. You burnt the pads up with residue on the rotor
    6. Rotor bolts are loose
    7. Caliper bolts are loose.
    8. It was damp outside, try when dry

    Fix those things, try again.

    If replacing brakes Shimano XT is a great value for performance/longevity. Often on sale online. arts cycerly and others.

    For highest end, high reliability Magura.
    I am a massive fan for Magura, and trust them greatly. Well worth the cost to me.
     
    Varaxis, Cornholio, Faust29 and 2 others like this.
  26. RS VR6

    RS VR6 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Valencia/Simi
    Name:
    Lee
    Current Bike:
    Banshee Shartfire/Chiner 29r
    I recently switched to a set of the Magura MT Trail Sport (long ass name:Roflmao).

    So far I really like how they feel. The trimming of the hoses was easy and didn't require a bleed (even though some fluid did come out of the lever).
     
    Varaxis, Cornholio, Faust29 and 2 others like this.
  27. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    Giant XTC with pedals
    We're supposed to keep track of this???
     
  28. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Thread necrosis... but I'll play.
    Cantilevers
    V-brakes
    Avid Juicy 5/7/ultimate (several sets) Some were good, some were horrible
    Avid Elixirs - came on the bike
    Avid XO Trails - spec'd on my 2013 Knolly Podium (meh)
    2010 - Shimano XTR Trails (and a light shone through the clouds, a chorus of angels sang, and it was good)
    2016 - present - Shimano XT Trails (almost as good as my XTRs were)
     
    Varaxis and Cornholio like this.
  29. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower
    Let's see.....

    Cantilevers
    XT/XTR V-Brakes....cutting edge
    Hayes Mag disc....great brake for the time
    Avid BB7 Disc...excellent feel with XTR/SD-7 Levers
    Hayes HFX-9 Disc...cheap and crappy
    Shimano XT 765 Disc...close to the best brakes ever
    Avid Juicy 5 Disc....6 years, no issues
    Avid Juicy 7 Disc....5 years, no issues
    Avid Elixir R Disc....required bi-monthly bleeds
    Shimano XT 785 Disc...excellent, but still not perfect
    Avid X.0 Trail Disc...warranty replacement for Elixir. Gobs of power
    Magura Gustav Disc....Beast brakes. Makes tandem stop on a dime.


    I think the new generation of Shimano brakes are hard to beat, but they are not perfect. Wish they were serviceable.

    The X.0 Trails have insane amount of power, but they don't modulate worth crap.

    Elixirs were horrible....requiring a bi-monthly bleed....after almost a year, warranttied with X.0 Trails.

    The Shimano brakes post 4 pot may be my favorite. Nice feel. Bleed without tools. Serviceable.
     
  30. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Front Range, San Gabes
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Ssnake"
    Current Bike:
    YT Izzo
    In no particular order...

    XTR V-brakes
    Elixir
    Shimanos: 486; Deore; XT
    Magura Marta SL

    Curently using Shimano XT M785 on all bikes
     
    RS VR6, Varaxis and Cornholio like this.
Loading...


As a former Amazon Associate I continue to get screwed trying to stay qualified as an Amazon Affiliate. So I quit!


Want to donate to imtbtrails?