About bulldozing in CNF...

Discussion in 'Trail Conditions' started by BonsaiNut, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    XTR 29er (aka Frankenstein)
    I ran into this interesting image on one of the trail sites - showing what Harding USED to look like at the Laurel Springs trail turnoff...

    Sad what several years of running bulldozers will do to a trail that was well on its way to being single track. Today that stretch is easily 15' wide of barren DG / rock. At mile 5.8 they even bulldozed in a new turnaround where one didn't exist in the past. Wider and wider they go...

    Harding010jpg.jpg
     
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  2. littlewave

    littlewave Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Newport Beach
    Name:
    Brett
    Current Bike:
    Ibis Ripley LS
    It’s a fire road, so when there’s a fire, they’re gonna bulldoze so their equipment can get to where they need it.
     
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  3. rossage

    rossage iMTB Addict

    Location:
    East Sacramento
    Name:
    Ross Lawson
    Current Bike:
    Highball
    They have dozed MTT and Fern/Brown before...
    Ride 'em while you can.
     
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  4. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Crescenta Valley
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Snake"
    Current Bike:
    Vassago/Trek
    Not in a long, long, long, long time. My sources say that it won't happen to either of them in a long, long, long time to come.
     
  5. bigringrider101

    bigringrider101 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Winnetka CA
    Name:
    Berni Avila
    Current Bike:
    Jones Space Frame Ti truss for
    I remember riding up and down Sully ridge as a single track. I mean you could tell it was a fire road but they let it go wild . I doubt that would go back to what it was.
    Totally understandable, like littlewave said. There is a reason why they’re called “fire roads”.
     
  6. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    XTR 29er (aka Frankenstein)
    If they would just let us put in trails, it wouldn't be an issue. Instead they won't let us put in trails - and their argument is all about "protecting nature" while they go and bulldoze another 20 acres of trees.

    They closed off Silverado Truck Trail, which could have been turned into a perfect bike and hiking trail. Instead they blocked access and are letting it go wild. Why?

    SILVERADO.jpg
     
  7. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Crescenta Valley
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Snake"
    Current Bike:
    Vassago/Trek
    There is a school/camp in service up the way there so the road must be kept clear and wide for the vehicle traffic.
     
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  8. bigringrider101

    bigringrider101 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Winnetka CA
    Name:
    Berni Avila
    Current Bike:
    Jones Space Frame Ti truss for
    I’m talking about above the gate. Higher than camp Josepho. Not complaining or asking anything.
     
  9. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    XTR 29er (aka Frankenstein)
    In case people are wondering, Silverado Truck Trail starts in Silverado Canyon behind the convenience store and the cafe... and ends at Four Corners. Talk about an amazing route to add to a Maple Springs or Harding loop... The picture I took is from Harding Truck Trail at mile 5.8 across Harding Canyon. At that point Silverado Truck Trail is running on the north side of the canyon rim - ending at Four Corners.

    It is my personal belief that they blocked off Silverado because they looked at Maple Springs and Harding and decided Silverado was redundant FOR FIRE TRUCKS. They never once considered recreational use.
     
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  10. Rumpled

    Rumpled Well-Known Member

    Location:
    OC
    Name:
    Jim Martin
    Current Bike:
    2003 Giant Rainier
    That's a good point. That goes on the ridge south of Silverado up to 4 Corners, right? Basically East - West?
    I've wondered about that and areas like Irvine Mesa to the West. I think IRC (now OC Parks) has a TH next to the old Silverado School now library that goes to Irvine Mesa. Seems fenced off and never any programs there.

    And whatever happened to OC Parks buying that land to the east of Modjeska Grade to make a staging area and trail up to Santiago Truck Trail?
     
  11. Bill

    Bill Newbie with Hope!

    Location:
    Costa Mesa
    Name:
    Bill
    Current Bike:
    old bike
    That picture reminds me of what it looked like in the early 90's. I remember being annoyed that they bladed it back then. Sure was much prettier that the fire road. Did make it easier to go up and down though on the completely rigid bike.
     
  12. evdog

    evdog Well-Known Member

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    What is stopping people from riding in or hiking in a trail on what sounds like an abandoned fire road?
     
  13. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    XTR 29er (aka Frankenstein)
    It is an interesting question. I just checked the CNF land use map and (assuming my map is current) that ridge is listed as combination of Back Country Non-Motorized and Back Country. In other words there are no restricted biological areas, existing wilderness, or proposed wilderness areas. The trail starts as road behind the cafe and turns into dirt fireroad over public land... so there may be an access issue. However it is very well-established - showing up on both Google Maps and the Forest Service's own map. The farther you ascend the more it narrows... and it appears to peter out about two miles before Four Corners. There is another trail that starts at Four Corners and heads west along the ridge for about a mile that looks like a game or hunter's trail... but the two trails do not appear to connect. If they DID connect I wouldn't be surprised to see people on it regularly.

    I know that part of the problem was the trail used to run right down the ridgeline where Maple Springs road (the unpaved portion) currently rises in switchbacks. I assume that part of the trail was removed as part of the Maple Springs road construction. Off-roading continued on the upper portions, and the forest service has been forced to go in and dig in bomb craters to keep off-roading out, which is understandable because erosion of that area was jeopardizing Maple Springs road. It is very easy to see as you climb Maple Springs - there are areas that appear to be turn-offs that now seem to go nowhere - but if you peek back in them you can see the old trail sections.

    It is certainly legal to hike... and might be worth an exploratory hike to see what's up. My guess is about 4-5 miles before you reach the section where it dies out.

    silverado_1_2019.jpg
    The red line is the current trail that is marked on Google and the CNF maps. The blue line is the part they are trying to block access to - primarily dirt bike related issues.

    /EDIT I just took a closer look at the CNF map and it shows the trail as connecting all the way through - with the middle section being a foot path.
     
  14. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    Looks interesting.
     
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  15. Faust29

    Faust29 iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve Macko
    Current Bike:
    3 SC is now 2 SC.
    You forgot the Biscuits and Gravy!

    Not that I'd ever ride it or hike it, but it's there... And it looks like it drops off of Silverado Truck Trail about 1/2 mile from Four Corners and exits not far from the bottom of Motorway. It's visible from Motorway... Look across the canyon next time you go down it.
     
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  16. Faust29

    Faust29 iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve Macko
    Current Bike:
    3 SC is now 2 SC.
    Strava Heat Map shows that the area is actually pretty well traveled. If you filter it by hikers versus bikers, it seems pretty equal. But it also looks like the road does not go all the way through anymore... Which is probably the reason it's abandoned. It looks like there were some pretty significant landslides on the upper portion.

    Silverado Strava Use.jpg
     
  17. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    The OC, Calif
    Name:
    Andy
    Current Bike:
    Depends...
  18. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    The OC, Calif
    Name:
    Andy
    Current Bike:
    Depends...
    Silverado Modjeska Recreation Parks District Draft Master Plan of Trails, Adopted Oct. 14, 2004

    http://smrpd.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/SMRPD20DMPT-2004R.pdf -

    PDF also nice color map at the end, also shows STT
     
  19. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    XTR 29er (aka Frankenstein)
    What's interesting about this map is that it shows Silverado TT taking an abrupt left turn just past Shrewsburg Spring, and descending via Halfway Canyon... ending up at Maple Springs Visitor Center. I am assuming this is a "suggested" route(?) In actuality, the trail continues quite a bit farther along the ridge before petering out.
     
  20. Old&InTheWay

    Old&InTheWay Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange, Ca.
    Name:
    Steve
    Current Bike:
    2017 Intense Primer Pro
    4063180178_8e66a70a4d_z.jpg

    I'd seen that so many times from Motorway. I think it was in 2007 that I decided to go up it and look around. Mountain climbing route would be a more accurate description than trail. It does however lead to a beautiful idyllic meadow and oak grove. I had brought with me a quadrant map and compass. Still things were sketchy especially after a thick fog rolled in with low visibility. I headed in the correct direction following the beaten path traversing trail , fire break and road. I felt comfortable when I started seeing trash. It became more plentiful and I went through remains of the old ski resort. I popped out at 4 Corners. I think that was Biscuits and Gravy!
     
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  21. littlewave

    littlewave Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Newport Beach
    Name:
    Brett
    Current Bike:
    Ibis Ripley LS
    Ski resort?
     
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  22. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    The OC, Calif
    Name:
    Andy
    Current Bike:
    Depends...
    Oh Wow. I kinda assumed it was (mostly) formed by water run off.

    So is it worth dragging a bike up that stupidly steep first part? Is anything above that first part rideable?



     
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  23. Faust29

    Faust29 iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve Macko
    Current Bike:
    3 SC is now 2 SC.
    I always thought the same thing, and then I heard it mentioned several times by guys who have ridden it... It basically drops straight down from Four Corners. It shows up prominently on the Strava heat map, so it does get ridden... As does Smashface, which drops down from Pleasants Peak. Smashface is visible on the image I posted above. It runs "parallel" to Motorway and drops out near the store.

    Way past my skill level...
     
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  24. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    The OC, Calif
    Name:
    Andy
    Current Bike:
    Depends...
    Yeah, I just found the strava segment for the downhill... a bunch of people rode it last month... and going by the strava names, and what/where they ride, its something that's above my skill level too... Although I'll probably take a look at the top section off the Four Corners mesa at some stage...
    whistle.jpg
     
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  25. Old&InTheWay

    Old&InTheWay Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange, Ca.
    Name:
    Steve
    Current Bike:
    2017 Intense Primer Pro
    To get up that " stupidly steep first part" I had to sit on my butt, use my hands for balance and push myself up with my legs and also crawl on my hands and knees. Its almost straight up at times. Can't imagine taking a bike up or down.
     
  26. Faust29

    Faust29 iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve Macko
    Current Bike:
    3 SC is now 2 SC.
    2300 feet in 2 miles. :eek: :facepalm:
     
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  27. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    XTR 29er (aka Frankenstein)
    I updated my map to include Biscuits as well as the last section of Santiago Truck Trail. There appears to be a gap of about 3/4 of a mile in the middle where I cannot see a sign of any trail (from Google Earth). The trail down from Four Corners ends at a small hilltop. To connect the two paths you would need a section of traverse along the side of a steep hill, and then across a shallow saddle and then up the ridge to the hill. If you look at it in 3D view it doesn't look that difficult.

    silverado_2_2019.jpg
     
  28. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    XTR 29er (aka Frankenstein)
    Oh oh... I noticed a trail at the end of Wildcat Canyon that rises up to Santiago Truck Trail. It looks well-traveled, but at the same time there is a private home that occupies the entire end of the canyon that would probably block access. I looked up the home... and saw that it was for sale. 38.6 acres.

    Gentlemen, let me introduce you to the IMTBTRAILS party shack / roadhouse! All we need to do is raise $1.4 million!

    ISukjdh69vha1m0000000000.jpg

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/...anyon-CA-92676/2123739816_zpid/?fullpage=true
     
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  29. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J M
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower
    I rode Silverado TT about 2005/2006. Ride it with a Silverado Cyn local. There was some private property to navigate.

    We rode it up a ways. Pretty much to the end of your line on the map. The trail from there went from fire road to singletrack. The trail dropped down into the back of the last house down in Wildcat Canyon. The trail down was loose, really loose, rocky and technical. It was all rideable.....but again that was 14 years ago. Not sure what condition it is in now.
     
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  30. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    XTR 29er (aka Frankenstein)
    I just also noted that Ladd Canyon trail is listed as a major trail on this map...

    If I had to guess, @mtnbikej you've been down this one too? Just the faintest of signatures on Strava...
     
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