29 or 27.5+ for hardtail?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by buggravy, Sep 28, 2019.


As a former Amazon Associate I continue to get screwed trying to stay qualified as an Amazon Affiliate. So I quit!


Want to donate to imtbtrails?

  1. buggravy

    buggravy iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Calabasas
    Name:
    Matt
    Current Bike:
    Transition Sentinel
    I was going to keep this on the DL until it arrived, but I feel like I need to consult the collective conscience here. I ordered a hard tail last night, but in the run up to clicking the pay button I've been debating on 27.5+ vs 29. Academically I get the pros/cons, but curious what most have gone or would go with for local riding. I've never ridden 27.5+. In the inception of this plan I was thinking 27.5+, with Rekon 2.8 as the starting point, but when I clicked pay it was configured with 29 and Rekon 2.6. Realistically I am not going to be doing any bikepacking, and this isn't a single purpose or narrow focus build. While it will be more of a secondary bike, it definitely won't be merely a back up bike. I intend to use it frequently on the trails that are more HT friendly. Anyway, order just went in last night so I have at least through the weekend to decide, but I sprung for a custom I9 wheel set again, so however I have the bike configured to start will be a commitment to some degree.
     
    Mikie, Faust29, Danmtchl and 5 others like this.
  2. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Front Range, San Gabes
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Ssnake"
    Current Bike:
    YT Izzo
    For a HT, I think 29er is always the way to go. I say this because you already have another bike, one that is designed for the gnar, comparatively. 2,6 tires will supply plenty of cushion, too. HT bikes are all about pedaling efficiency.

    Congrats on adding to your stable. I recall your asking about a certain HT on another page here so I have a feeling that I know what it is.
     
    Mikie, Faust29, Danmtchl and 3 others like this.
  3. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Troutman, NC
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    How tall are you? I think one thing people don't tend to consider is their height, and their center of gravity on the bike. 27.5" (all things equal) will be slightly lower than 29" on the same general build. It might be that going to a hardtail you are left wanting a little more dextrous ride... which the 27.5" could provide. The change would be slight, however.
     
    Mikie, Faust29, Danmtchl and 2 others like this.
  4. buggravy

    buggravy iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Calabasas
    Name:
    Matt
    Current Bike:
    Transition Sentinel
    5'11".
     
  5. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Troutman, NC
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    I am 6', and have never felt the need to go to a 27.5" from my 29" builds. However I always ride with a dropper post, which allows me to move the seat out of the way on the downhills. I could definitely tell the difference between my old 26" when I moved to my 29"... but I'm not sure how much I would feel the difference moving to a 27.5". Since I mostly ride trails back in the mountains or Whiting, I appreciate the stability the 29" gives me, and its ability to roll over everything. It is subtle, but it is a different type of riding. Deer versus gazelle (if that makes sense).
     
    Mikie, Faust29, Danmtchl and 2 others like this.
  6. mike

    mike iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    HT, FS
    I rode a Hightower in 27.5+ mode for two days. My takeaway from that brief experience was: No revelation, no holy grail, no need to go back to 27.5 where I came from. For a well-heeled rider building a quiver, I could see it. For a front-line bike with a semblance of economy, I would go i35 29" hoops so you can comfortably run 2.3 – 2.8" tires. (Plenty of room in a PH frame.) Without more testing to prove it, I'm leaning toward 29 x 2.6 being the sweet spot for the PH rear, unless loose surface is involved, then 29 x 2.8.

    Edit: Good to keep in mind that the outer dia of the tire will be pretty similar between 29 and 275+. So the difference is more how much tire you want/need and less which total diamater is better.

    It's nice to have parts – wheels included – that work on multiple bikes you own. So you really have backup parts for each. People have run 275+ on GG FS bikes, so that could be a moot point. In fact, that could be a nudge to explore 27.5 because you'll be able to borrow your Smash 29er wheelset whenever. The only non-iterchangeable part between your Smash and PH will be the rear brake (hose). Your fork too, probably, though I have swapped the 140 between my FS and HT.

    No real answer there...
     
    Mikie, Faust29, Danmtchl and 2 others like this.
  7. buggravy

    buggravy iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Calabasas
    Name:
    Matt
    Current Bike:
    Transition Sentinel
    Good perspective re: setting up for maximum interchangeablility. I spec'd the PH with the Fox 36 140, which is the same fork I have in 160 on the Smash, plus I have the spare 140 air shaft that it had in TP form. Being able to borrow the maximum amount of parts from the other bike in a pinch is a good proactive plan.
     
    Mikie, Faust29, Danmtchl and 3 others like this.
  8. buggravy

    buggravy iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Calabasas
    Name:
    Matt
    Current Bike:
    Transition Sentinel
    You do bring up another decision point here. If I stick with I9, which I intend to do, it's either i30.5 or i36. I'm starting with 2.6 tires. I9 says 2.3 - 2.8 range for tire width on the i30.5 and 2.4 - 3.0 on the i36. The latter coming at a 110 gram penalty, and might not play as nice with the 2.4 that are on the Smash, though having to run those wheels on the Smash as a spare isn't necessarily an inevitability. But, do you think the profile that the i36 would provide on a 2.6 tire is worth the rotating mass penalty of the wider rim?
     
    Mikie, Faust29, Danmtchl and 3 others like this.
  9. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Front Range, San Gabes
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Ssnake"
    Current Bike:
    YT Izzo
    Personally, I don't.
     
    Mikie, Faust29, Danmtchl and 2 others like this.
  10. mike

    mike iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    HT, FS
    I think if a rider likes running lower pressure at times for maximum traction and control, the wider rims are mandatory. It's amazing getting your tires down in the low teens and still be able to ride them on steep stuff. But, I've run 29 x 2.6 on i26 Stans Arch Mk3, and they work fine with some air pressure. You just get squirm sooner than the wider rim when dropping pressure, and you are limited in how low. I rode that setup 300 miles of AZT before replacing the tires. (Because they were toast, not because of bad size.) But for a pure trail bike to take a rider to next-level riding, I would take the weight penalty of the cheater rim. The rider will wire skills with a little more control. (Once those skills are there, he can apply them to more weight-conscious gear.)

    Also, I would not be bound to a particular manufacturer so you have more width options. If 2.6 is the target, I think a little weight could be saved with i32-35mm rims over 36. Do you really need 3" tire capability?
     
  11. da big hills

    da big hills iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    pearl harbor
    Name:
    cagey
    Current Bike:
    enduro 29
    the question is 27.5 or 29. the 29 is spongy so the rear suspension is partially in the tires. 29 rolls up taller obstacles. 29 is taller. 27.5 is spry, it carves quickly, flys faster and farther. Saddle and stem height are the same but the axle is 2 '' lower. I equate riding the 27.5 as riding a hyper bike, it is small enough that you can throw it across the terrain. The 29 is plush it just plows over anything in its way. 27.5 is just a less spry 26 wanna be. The 26 gives the correct axle height to allow the tossing of the bike across the trail making off camber easy, drop the front wheel off the side at 25mph, just pick it up set it back on line. Carve the switchbacks with room to spare. Jump off anything sticking up on the single track, especially a hard tail. So to me its 26 or 29. Then ask what type of riding? Warrior or cruiser.
    happy wicked single track trails
     
    Mikie, Faust29, DangerDirtyD and 2 others like this.
  12. jimbowho

    jimbowho Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Podunk KS
    Name:
    james jim jimmy
    Current Bike:
    GT sensor
    Still have a rigid 26er, and a 650b Hardball. I can hardly notice a difference. Now my 29er, very noticeable especially in horse divot's and rocks. To me not so important with squish, but imho the stiffer you go the bigger the wheels.
     
    Mikie, Faust29, DangerDirtyD and 3 others like this.
  13. buggravy

    buggravy iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Calabasas
    Name:
    Matt
    Current Bike:
    Transition Sentinel
    For both budget and simplicity reasons I'm limiting myself to what's available via GG's drop down menu. Looking even at DT Swiss' site I'm not seeing a 29er option other than i30, but maybe I'm just missing it. That said, I have really been happy with my I9s. While I definitely don't claim to be doing techy ratcheting climbs, I'm a notorious pedal striker and I can think of a few spots in my typical riding spots where I've learned to use some momentum to roll up ad over an obstacle with the front tire, and use a little pedal pump or two right at the top to keep momentum and clear the rear tire. That instant engagement seems to help with that. I agree that 3.0 capability is almost certainly unnecessary.

    Just to be clear I'm not considering a regular 27.5 set up. Was trying to decide between 27.5+ and 29, which I believe should have similar rolling diameters, though I'm feeling pretty confident now of my initial choice of 29 with 2.6s.
     
    Mikie, Faust29, DangerDirtyD and 3 others like this.
  14. mike

    mike iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    HT, FS
    Roger, reasonable rationale.

    You can run a 3" tire on i30, but of course with enough air...

    IMG_1894.jpg

    I would say too narrow to get full benefit from the plus format, but still fun.
     
    Mikie, Faust29, DangerDirtyD and 4 others like this.
  15. pperrelle

    pperrelle iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Oracle, AZ
    Name:
    Paul
    Current Bike:
    Ripley V4 & Ripmo V2
    Looks like your mind is made up on the 29ers, but I’ll reinforce your decision a bit. I’m running 2.6 Rekons on my DV9 with 29mm internal Nox wheels and they do seem to work well. Definitely more comfortable than my last hardtail that ran 2.3’s on 22mm internal Ibis wheels. Maxxis makes 2.4 WT tires, so you could always go that route if you wanted a smaller tire on the 30-35mm rims.
     
    Mikie, Faust29, mike and 5 others like this.
  16. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower
    I tried a 27.5+ and didn’t like it.

    For me....HT’s and 29’s go together. I’ve run 23mm-27mm rims with 2.1-2.4” tires....currently the Chameleon has 30mm rims and 2.4” tires. I have no need to go any bigger on tire size.

    I can easily run the 2.4 Rekon down at 18 psi and the 2.4 Bonty XR3 down at 19 psi with my 195 lbs. this hasn’t held me back from riding just about anything.
     
    Danmtchl, Faust29, mike and 4 others like this.
  17. evdog

    evdog iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    For me the only reason to ever go larger than 2.6 is if you'll be riding somewhere with lots of soft sand. 2.6 on wide-ish rims is still a pretty wide footprint.
     
    Mikie, Danmtchl, DangerDirtyD and 3 others like this.
  18. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.
    I tried the plus size before they were even available for full suspension, and there were only one or two tires available. And I’ve tried them a couple times since...

    I always end up back on the 29ers, because I get tired of trying to spin the plussers. With all of that gigantic contact patch, it’s like trying to spin up a dump truck.

    The plussers are presently hanging on the garage wall...
     
    Mikie, Danmtchl, DangerDirtyD and 4 others like this.
  19. Maderas84

    Maderas84 Member

    Location:
    Fluent in French & sarcasm.
    Name:
    Andres
    Current Bike:
    Ibis, Pivot & Santa Cruz
    Both.
     
    CBone, Mikie, Faust29 and 2 others like this.
  20. Voodoo Tom

    Voodoo Tom MTB Addict

    Location:
    Castaic
    Name:
    Tom Kokkinakis
    Current Bike:
    Mango one, black one, Ti one
    Matt I think you are making the right choice with the 29er 2.4 - 2.6 combo but...there's a shitload of fun to be had on a 27.5+ ride. I'm a 29er dude at heart but plus tires are stupid fun when you get em right. Yes there's a bit of a pedaling penalty(especially when you run em about 13-15 psi) but it's not that bad and I've done many big days with them. Don't believe what anybody says though they are not even close to the same rolling diameter of 29ers at least when comparing Rekons. This is why I don't run them much anymore. On my Hightower they lower the bottom bracket by a good 1/2" and it makes for way too damn many pedal strikes. Even with the Hightower's "flip" chip it puts the BB at around 12.5" and you add in sag and you just cant ride it without constantly thinking about pedal strikes. It sure is fun to get away with bloody murder on the plussers though. No precision riding necessary, just kinda point the bike in the general direction and close your eyes if it gets too bad and still live to tell about it. I will say though that recently I mounted a 29x2.6 Rekon and it's pretty dang fun too. Tell you what I have a set of 27+ composite wheels with newish 2.8 Rekons on them that you are welcome to try out anytime.

    27.5x2.8 vs 29x2.4 both Rekons. Not the same diameter or even close.
    IMG_0037.jpg

    They lower the BB by a lot... Super fun on flowy stuff and off camber super loose I'm gonna die stuff...
    IMG_0036.jpg
     
    rossage, CBone, Mikie and 7 others like this.
  21. mike

    mike iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    HT, FS
    Great testimonial, Tom. IIRC @Mikie came to a similar conclusion as you – ? And you guys rode em a bunch before switching back.
     
    rossage, buggravy, Faust29 and 4 others like this.
  22. buggravy

    buggravy iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Calabasas
    Name:
    Matt
    Current Bike:
    Transition Sentinel
    I appreciate both the offer, and the insight. Difference in that pic is definitely not trivial, and I'm a pedal striking SOB by nature, though I suppose the hard tail will help mitigate that to some extent. I'm feeling pretty good about the 29er 2.6 Rekon call.
     
    Mikie, mike, Faust29 and 4 others like this.
  23. singlespeedrider

    singlespeedrider Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Phoenix AZ
    Name:
    Mark
    Current Bike:
    Giant XTC advanced single soee
    I bought my giant single speed with the 27.5+ wheels and a second set of 29ers. Even out here in the rocky Phoenix desert I almost always run the 29ers. I do like having the option of switching the 2 wheels out and getting a different ride. I think they both have the time to run them but the 29ers are just more versatile.
     
    buggravy, Mikie, mike and 3 others like this.
  24. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    I got to concur with my compadre. I firmly believe there is a huge difference riding 27.5 plus and 29. My Hightower came as 27.5 plus (2.8 Rekons front and rear).
    The “Point and Plow” factor seems nearly illegally fun. @Voodoo Tom nails it.
    The penalty is a very low bottom bracket and the climbs are a bit more grinding. Like Tom has said on our rides, “You got to let these bikes climb at their speed.”
    I rode the 27.5 for well over a year before I finally destroyed my rear rim.

    Going to 29ers I noticed the plowing went away and the dancing began. Picking my lines more carefully. Same speed, just a bit more work and loved the significant drop in pedal strike.

    Now having gone to the 2.6 Rekon on the front and the maximum allowable size 2.4 Rekon on the rear, I feel I have found a happy medium. Plus locking my front and rear suspension out on sustained climbs made my bike a much more agile climber and a fun “All Mountain” Bike. I hope this helps!
     
  25. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.
    You touch on one of my biggest complaints with the Hightower... More with SC's marketing than the bike. The Hightower is not a plus bike, even though they originally sold and marketed it that way. It will only accept a 2.8" tire in the rear. That's barely plus... The only true plus capable bike in SC's lineup is the Chameleon. Its tire clearance starts where the Hightower stops...

    If you were to try a real plus tire, which you can't on the Hightower, your conclusions would change. The 2.8s look like road tires next to a 3.0 and the overall height difference is maybe 1/4". With a really knobby plusser, it's not even that.

    I'd be willing to bet that the proliferation of true plus capable bikes (The Smash for one...) was partly behind the decision to stop offering the Hightower as a plus bike. They have removed the word "plus" from all of the marketing on the new Hightower, and state specifically that it is only compatible with 27.5 x 2.8, without mentioning the word "plus".
     
    DangerDirtyD, mike, Mikie and 2 others like this.
  26. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Front Range, San Gabes
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Ssnake"
    Current Bike:
    YT Izzo
    WTH?! Steve you sound like a politician.
     
  27. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.
    I prefer "informed consumer." SC cashed in on the plus craze with a bike that really wasn't designed for it... That was a marketing/bean counter decision.

    Sorry, @buggravy - Going off on a tangent here. Not that that ever happens around here... :p
     
    DangerDirtyD, mike, Mikie and 2 others like this.
  28. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Front Range, San Gabes
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Ssnake"
    Current Bike:
    YT Izzo
    Sounds to me like SC is not the perfect bike company after all. I will scratch them off of my shopping list.
     
    mike, Mikie, Voodoo Tom and 1 other person like this.
  29. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.
    Perfect company... Is there such an animal?

    I just think it's a (one... of many) telling sign of an organization's culture when product decisions fall outside of the engineers' intentions... Call it my MBA from a former life talking. :p
     
  30. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    I was going to mention that a 2.8 is not really a plus tire. But I guess I would need to see a 3.0 next to a 2.8 to believe there is that much of a difference.

    I would also like to mention that my Hightower with 29’ers on it is my very first 29’er bike ever. So I went from 26 to 27.5 to 29 in my bike evolution.
     
Loading...


As a former Amazon Associate I continue to get screwed trying to stay qualified as an Amazon Affiliate. So I quit!


Want to donate to imtbtrails?