IRC Shooting

It's pretty terrible what happened. I just think it's crazy how some politicians think more gun restrictions will stop this sort of violence. Sure, specifically gun violence would probably taper off after a few decades of a ban, but people fixing to kill people based on a cause above tangible grounds will never stop.

My thoughts and prayers go out to those harmed by this incident. I'm pretty torn though. The Marine in me wants some payback while I know evil only begets evil.

 

Straw purchasers, gun show loopholes, weapon type/capacity, possession of a black market weapon penalties, required training/licensing. I can think of many ways to tighten up on things while still allowing ownership.

I don't think anyone believes a law will prevent entirely these types of events but it may make them less frequent or less impactful when they do happen. 100% in-effectiveness isn't a good enough excuse not to do it in my eyes.

Terrorists, foreign and domestic, gangs, historically violent offenders, would all be impacted in some way, eventually.

The 2nd amendment isn't impenetrable, it can and will be re-ammended I believe.

"Carte Blanche" rights to anything don't really exist.

 

lets blame the gun not the people using them. .drunks kill people so is the car at fault?

 

It's much too complex an issue than to keep approaching it in a simplistic manner, especially if anyone truly wants to effect change.

Bad decisions take lives. I'd rather take my chances on surviving that holiday party with a terrorist driving a car through that conference room than being hit by a modified AR myself, but that's just me.

 

Two words: Improvised explosives(Boston bombing comes to mind). 1 person killed by any means of terror or by malicious act is too many. It can be accomplished with something as simple as a rock. People are very ingenuitive. Evil will find a way to get its deeds done. From the beginning of time things like this have happened. I really wish gun control was the answer, it may be a small part of it but am not sure if at this point it would have any effect. Guns are built to last and pretty much have to be melted down to render them useless. This world may seem like a huge place but it can only hold so many creatures our Scientific minds will come up with ways to keep us fed and alive longer but I don't believe it can fix the human mind. More people means more chance of things like this happening.
Again live everyday and be vigilant. My .02

 

I really apreciate all the thoughts going in to this.
In regards to gun control, it's possible we may have to look at this from a larger perspective...
Mexico has a 100% ban on gun ownership for the public. Yet, the gun related crime and murder rate is significant.
Establishing higher gun control in the US would be no different than establishing higher emmisions controls to prevent global warming. The rest of the world would have to jump onboard to effect globally. Good luck with that!

True gun control is more a "mind set" than deprivation. Criminals are not going to abide by any gun control laws. In fact to help validate the point, the war on drugs has been ongoing for decades and is no closer to successful drug control. As long as there is money, there will be plenty of drugs and guns to go around.

So in affect, the only people that will not have access to guns are the law abiding citizens. What's the point of that? My preference would be to not invoke more restrictive laws on guns, but to enforce the laws we have in place.

You are never going to get the guns off the street. But statistics continue to prove that counties and countries with less restrictive gun laws that allow more concealed weapons to be carried are safer and have less crime.

I for one would much rather be calling 911 for help with a piece strapped to my side in effort to protect my loved ones than to be helpless before a criminal that does not care about gun free zones and restrictive gun laws.

With terrorism on the rise in America I would think it wiser to promote guns and firearm training so that we can protect ourselves from these type of scenario's...

Just food for thought.


More restrictive gun control appears to parallel higher gun related crime rates.

 

Mexico is an interesting example mainly because the organized crime there seems to be heavily connected to government corruption. Cartels are operating like a military there seemingly unchecked. El Chapo just escaped and prison guards were paid to ignore the sounds they were hearing.

The war on drugs has indeed been a failure, has it been entirely ineffective though? I don't know that anyone knows for sure or how that could be quantifiable. I think just looking at the objective of the "War On Drugs" though most practical thinkers would say, "impossible!"

The things I mentioned in my earlier post about where laws or policy could be tightened up(straw purchaser penalties, gunshow loopholes, training etc.) don't seem (to me) to restrict ownership to law abiding citizens but rather adds some accountability to the transaction, though it may make it less convenient.

I did a quick google search of open carrys effect on crime and I found studies saying different things (what a surprise! Lol) here's one from Stanford University stating that statistics show the opposite to be true, crime goes up with open carry:

Http://news.stanford.edu/news/2014/november/donohue-guns-study-11111414.html

The thought of open carry in L.A. is an interesting one considering the road rage I frequently see. Firearms training doesn't teach people patience, courtesy, cause/effect, stress management or consequences. When people lose it, they do it to all differing degrees. More guns within hands reach when a temper is flared seems like a dangerous recipe. I agree "Gun Free Zones" do nothing but make for a feel-good sign on a wall but I dont feel the proper action is to arm everyone either.

The idea that we must live in a society where weapons are all around us within the reach of an arm, where our families, children, are growing up with a tool designed to kill, In the hands of the guy sitting next to us at the park, mall, restraunt, or movie theater doesn't make me feel any safer whstsoever. Everone is potentially capable of killing with a finger pull of the trigger instantly, at any given time on any given day. I fear the guy on my street stockpiling weapons moreso than the idea of a terrorist act occurring.

For the record, I AM for law abiding citizens owning guns, but think there is always room for refinement of the requirements for ownership.

Edit:
"With great power comes great responsibility" - Yoda, or maybe Marilyn Monroe

 

I heard a former Congressman on the radio today discussing this subject. He was a staunch NRA guy and had another guy from the opposition, who he viewed as someone he could not even speak with.
By chance they met, found they had much in common, and started a partnership.
As he stated, the chance that guns will be taken away from citizens is zero. Not going to happen.
Instead, their goal is to use science as a way to see what could be done to reduce gun homicides and suicides and mass shootings.
He brought up scientific studies about head-on collisions, that lead to simple advances like the implementation of median barriers.
However, there is a problem. The Dickey Amendment is a 20-year-old law banning any federal research on gun violence.
The author, Jay Dickey, is the former Congressman. He now advocates having this law changed.

I used to be in favor of limited gun control, mainly for handguns.
Because I value the Bill of Rights so much, and don't want it eroded, I have changed my mind.
Despite that, getting research going does seem to be a step in the right direction.

 

The rhetoric against gun control is so thick and so embedded in our current version of America, and so passionately and aggressively propagated by vested interests and a well-oiled political machine that's it's nearly impossible to have a discussion about an America with fewer guns or additional restrictions. I for one do not want to live in a country that is constantly in fear of being shot by anybody and everybody packing heat. More guns won't make us safer, and a well-armed paranoid society is just plain scary. "I felt threatened, so I shot him..." No thanks. I was in a Wal Mart in Frisco, Colorado last summer and a lady walked by my wife, my daughter and me with a handgun strapped to her belt - carrying openly - but not a law officer. I got out of there as fast as I could. No way I would trust our lives to her judgment. I can't imagine how much scarier this scenario would be if you happen to have different skin color than the one packing. (side note: I suppose this is how some people view our police on a daily basis).

That said, I assume the innocent victims who were shot at the IRC would have benefitted from some armed protection. Who knows if they could have stopped the assailants, or if they would have ended up shooting each other in the confusion. In this case, the assailants wore ski masks and paramilitary clothes and had big rifles, so I think there would be little chance of confusing the target - IF you saw them. I would much rather see a trained safety officer than 50 vigilantes trying to protect themselves and each other.