R.I.P. fellow MTBer…

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Maderas84, Jun 14, 2022.


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  1. Maderas84

    Maderas84 Member

    Location:
    Fluent in French & sarcasm.
    Name:
    Andres
    Current Bike:
    Ibis, Pivot & Santa Cruz
    Danmtchl, ~JB~, Dirtrider.... and 8 others like this.
  2. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Front Range, San Gabes
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Ssnake"
    Current Bike:
    YT Izzo
  3. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.
    So close to the end of the trail... :thumbsdown:
     
  4. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Damn. That sucks. We really shouldn't do that to our loved ones.
     
  5. scan

    scan iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    fran allas
    Current Bike:
    Scott Spark
    Take notice 100+ Degree club
     
  6. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    CA
    Name:
    Chicken Nugget
    Current Bike:
    2018 Guerrilla Gravity SMASH
    As long as @Lost Kiwi is with you scan, you’ll survive.
     
  7. Sasquatch9billion

    Sasquatch9billion iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    trinidad j. mendez
    How is a biker supposed to carry the recommended 2.5 gallons of water down that trail?
     
  8. evdog

    evdog iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    You don't carry 2.5 gal. There are streams along the way you can filter from including one that should flow year round with about 15mi left. But few people carry filters.

    And I suspect there hasn't been enough education of riders who do this ride to go with the marketing push to bring those riders in. Both in terms of how strenuous it is and the need to carry water. Sadly it may take a death to open riders eyes. It's similar length to some Palm Canyon options but 50% more climbing and it's much harder climbing. Think many many short punchy climbs and trail that is very raw and exposed (both steep drop off the side and no tree cover the second half of the ride).

    But the shuttle and "plunge" will draw people in. A big problem is most people - and the shuttles- run so that riders are dropping down low during the hottest part of the day. The comparative would be doing Palm Canyon off the top of Santa Rosa in mid summer. You'd be a lot better off starting at mid day or early afternoon and finishing around sunset. Of course then we'd have riders getting lost or stranded because they didn't bring lights.
     
    BonsaiNut, Stkx66, Walleye and 9 others like this.
  9. Dirtrider....

    Dirtrider.... Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Mission Viejo, CA
    Name:
    Paul
    Current Bike:
    Ibis Ripley V4
    This is very sad.

    @evdog is spot on with his assessment... this ride is on my upcoming list of rides since moving to CO. None of the shuttles that i have seen talk about the climbing portion. They showcase the 6,000 of vertical drop from top to bottom over 33 miles.

    I'm glad i listened to everyone here and friends before i rode PCE. That climbing on paper doesn't seem like much but with the environment and sand its much harder than most expect.

    The sun is piercing in CO which is vastly different than riding in So Cal. I'm still getting acclimated to elevation, sun and weather here.

    There are soo many running streams/creeks here... i'll be adding my water filter in my pack when taking longer rides. Being prepared going forward!
     
    evdog, Danmtchl, Cyclotourist and 7 others like this.
  10. mtbMike

    mtbMike iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    PRESCOTT!!!
    Name:
    Mike
    Current Bike:
    Ibis HD5, Ripley & Mojo 4
    @Dirtrider.... From everything I've read and been told by friends that have ridden it, the last portion is the most fun anyway. Next time I'm out there, we're going to ride Palisade RIM and cut across on the upper connector trail and then come down the PLUNGE.
     
    Danmtchl, herzalot and Dirtrider.... like this.
  11. Dirtrider....

    Dirtrider.... Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Mission Viejo, CA
    Name:
    Paul
    Current Bike:
    Ibis Ripley V4
    Sounds like a fun adventure!
     
    Danmtchl and Sasquatch9billion like this.
  12. konakc

    konakc iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    kc
    Cannell plunge is a worthwhile destination but u start in the 60s and could end up in 100s by the time u hit the plunge. And u climb at elevation. By the time ur done ur are bone dry. And u ran out of water So be careful.
     
  13. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    This is a different Plunge, but your advice probably holds here too.
     
    Danmtchl and Sasquatch9billion like this.
  14. evdog

    evdog iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    Cannell's plunge only has one short climb if I recall. Imagine instead it had a hundred of those throughout the descent. That's what Palisade Plunge is like. Similar terrain and temps.
     
  15. konakc

    konakc iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    kc
    muy horrible
     
    herzalot and Obsidian like this.
  16. Obsidian

    Obsidian iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Costa Mesa
    Name:
    Obsidian
    Current Bike:
    27.5 Intense Tracer
    R.I.P. That sounds like a super fun trail though ... just obviously not in record high temps.
     
    herzalot and Sasquatch9billion like this.
  17. TwoWheel Eric

    TwoWheel Eric Member

    Location:
    Orange County
    Name:
    Eric
    Current Bike:
    Ibis Ripley V4
    Hmm, my recollection is a couple thousand feet of climbing from Sherman Pass. Had 2 guys from TX on our shuttle who had no idea what they were getting into and had virtually no food and water. After 2 miles on the trail they turned around and rolled down the road back to town.
     
  18. Agent Orange

    Agent Orange Member

    Location:
    Antelope Valley, CA
    Name:
    Yokel Legend
    Current Bike:
    '98 Specialized FSR Comp
    It sounds like a borderline survivalist route. I'm all for that since I've been backpacking for a long time and generally know how not to die from exposure, but things like this are always going to catch someone out. Death Valley still does.

    Yeah, that would mean carrying ~20lbs of water alone.

    Drinking untreated water might make you sick hours or days later, but it's not likely to be fatal whereas dying of dehydration definitely is.

    It doesn't really have to be a filter either unless the water is turbid. UV and chemical sanitation is suitable otherwise(and unlike a filter, takes care of viruses as well).

    I have a Sweetwater (now MSR) Guardian filter that I never use anymore. Instead I carry this overkill kit because it's double redundant, smaller, and lighter. The whole lot is 386g, nearly 100g less than the filter.
    20220618_1701077.jpg

    A keen eye will also notice that the tablets are set to expire so I'm glad I dug this stuff out for a shufti.
     
  19. Sidewalk

    Sidewalk iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    The road is where I call home
    Name:
    Josh
    Current Bike:
    N+1
    I have started carrying the Katadyn BeFree filter on runs/rides I think I might need it. It has bailed me a couple of times, including Palm Canyon on a day when the streams were near dry and I expected flowing water. Filtered out some stagnant water and kept going.
     
  20. 406

    406 Member

    Location:
    San Diego
    Name:
    Brian
    Current Bike:
    Ripmo
    ^^This...although probably not relevant to the person on the plunge if he was already past any naturally available water when having issues.
     
    Sasquatch9billion, herzalot and UPSed like this.
  21. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Troutman, NC
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    The ride profile on MTBProject looks really tame. I'm not saying the trail is, but the profile looks it. Says only 839' of climbing. Someone should tag the trail somehow. Otherwise it looks like a coaster...

    https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/7058946/palisade-plunge-complete-ride

    Yikes. Read this review:

    Are you reading these negative reviews and thinking “I should still give it a shot”? Don’t. That’s what I did too. This trail is a dangerous money grab for a pompous local bike shop owner that hopes to strike it rich shuttling unsuspecting rubes to what will be the hardest day of some of their lives. It is not a downhill trail. It’s a long and poorly designed XC trail with black to double black features and many ways to meet their demise. The combination of distance, features, exposure, and poorly designed trail, along with the inaccurate representation and promotion, are going to get people killed.
     
  22. Obsidian

    Obsidian iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Costa Mesa
    Name:
    Obsidian
    Current Bike:
    27.5 Intense Tracer
    LOL, a review from Hugh Rection :laugh:. It sounds more like the whiny little girl has a problem with the bike shop or owner. :cry:
    The trail shows as black diamond on mtbproject, so what was he expecting? There are plenty of YouTube videos of the trail. It looks challenging but fun to me.
     
    Danimal and mtnbikej like this.
  23. evdog

    evdog iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    I was just referring to the final plunge, not the entire ride from Sherman Pass. There is definitely some tough climbing from the Pass to Big Meadow and a few other short/steep ones before you start the final plunge. Once you start to descend in earnest though there is only one notable climb that I recall.

    That's the problem with showing a profile over 32 miles. Look at Trailforks which breaks the ride into two sections and you can see the little "teeth" throughout the profile.

    My gps track from the ride shows 1,150 ft climbing. That's definitely not a lot. But it's the way the climbing comes at you that really adds up. Lots of short ~25ft climbs between sections of descent. The trail is also littered with embedded rocks that you are constantly bashing over or trying to go around which can sap your momentum even on downhills. It is like Sedona miles and with zero shade cover the last 15 miles as you drop into 90+ F temps. It's a pretty serious backcountry ride. Much harder than Whole Enchilada or Cannell. It just doesn't flow as easy as those. It's one of those rides where you feel like you are constantly climbing even as you trend downhill. And that's before considering the heat and lack of shade on the lower half.

    I think a lot of us who do longer rides in hot temps and ride rocky trails would probably be fine on Palisade Plunge. But remember you also have tons of weekend warriors from Flatlandia whose typical ride is 12-15 miles on front country trail systems showing up to shuttle this on their way to Moab/Fruita and are not prepared in any way for a beatdown. And the beatdown doesn't start until 12 miles into the ride. Not long after that is the point of no return and last water source on the trail (not that most riders bring a filter anyways) and by that time they can easily be in over their heads.
     
    Obsidian, mtnbikej, Sidewalk and 3 others like this.
  24. evdog

    evdog iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    Here is some video and pics from my ride in August last summer. Personally I really liked the ride. Similar to Whole Enchilada and a few others it drops through a number of distinctive zones that make it a more interesting ride. First 12 miles are though pine forest and meadows with flowing streams. Then 3 or so miles of tech riding down some switchbacks and through aspen forest. Then a fast descent through mostly scrub brush before traversing over to a ridge and dropping down to the desert on numerous switchbacks. It's two way trail but you probably won't see anyone else on the lower part.


    Part 1 is from Shirttail Point 12 miles into the ride, to the final crossing of Lands End road ~3 miles later. This is where the ride starts to get hard - going down a long series of technical exposed switchbacks. And then traversing through an aspen forest littered with rock to crawl up and over.




    Part 2 is from the final road crossing down, what riders would expect to be the easy part. There is some nice flow higher up then when you start to traverse across the short climbs and rockyness ratchets up.




    Pics: A lot of the first 12 miles looks like this

    01.jpg


    But there is also a lot of this. It is actually quite rocky in a lot of places.

    02.jpg


    Streams up top had trout. I came back for those when retrieving the shuttle

    03.jpg


    Looking back. I really liked the upper meadow riding. Need to go back and explore more trails up top

    04.jpg


    A mention of water would be a good addition to that warning

    05.jpg


    Starting into the aspens from Shirttail point

    06.jpg


    The upper trail is a historic route that fell into disrepair. Pretty cool they were able to re-use it.

    07.jpg


    Switchbacks begin! I made all but a couple of them

    08.jpg


    Sheer rock walls

    09.jpg


    Across Lands End Rd for the last time the real plunge begins

    10.jpg


    When not descending, you're climbing

    11.jpg


    Final stream crossing. This one should flow year round. Camel up!

    11b.jpg


    Lots of traversing for a while

    12.jpg


    Checking out one of the first technical exposed sections. Don't fall left.

    13.jpg


    Didn't ride this one. Stair-steppy with a loose exposed runout

    14.jpg


    Lots of cool rock along the trail

    15.jpg


    Also didn't ride this one, but should have

    16.jpg


    Lower canyon, about to cross over to Palisade Rim. Canyon bottom received a lot of water in a storm a few days prior.

    17.jpg


    View from Land's End overlook after shuttle retrieval. Found a cool campsite up top. As you can see my good fortune with smoke was about to end....

    18.jpg
     
    ~JB~, OTHRider, bvader and 19 others like this.
  25. scan

    scan iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    fran allas
    Current Bike:
    Scott Spark
    @Faust29 maybe you can move this to RR section.
     
    Faust29 and mtnbikej like this.
  26. evdog

    evdog iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    No need I'll be putting together the world's longest RR at some point and this will get CTRL A + CTRL C + CTRL V'd into it. It is relevant here to show the difficulty of the trail in question.
     
  27. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.

    That gives a lot more context... :thumbsup: Easy to see how someone can get in trouble out there.
     
    herzalot, BonsaiNut and evdog like this.
  28. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Troutman, NC
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    Particularly when they mention no cell coverage... and forget to mention no water.
     
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