What not to do if you have a 13 year-old and live in Chicago

Discussion in 'Free Zone' started by BonsaiNut, Apr 23, 2021.


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  1. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Troutman, NC
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    I am going to tread lightly here because I don't want this to turn into a flame thread. I am simply going to present a little information that I think is being skimmed over in the national media, regarding the tragic death of 13 year-old Adam Toledo, who was shot and killed by Police at 2:30 AM, early March 29. This is for people who don't live in Chicago and are unfamiliar with the violent crime there.

    Adam was shot on the 2300 block of South Spaulding. It is one of the most violent and dangerous neighborhoods in a violent and dangerous city. 2021 to date there have been 187 homicides in Chicago... but you don't hear anything about them in the news because it is mostly poor people killing poor people. Including fatalities, 959 people have been shot year-to-date... with 3 deaths and 5 wounded due to Police shootings (as of 4/23).

    So the elephant in the room... if you live in Lawndale or the Little Village and have a 13 year-old kid, what are you doing letting them roam the streets at 2:30 AM? And where are the protests and memorials... and the cries for investigations and the lawsuits... for the 187 dead who weren't shot by police?

    The whole thing is sad, tragic, and hypocritical. And to me illustrates how the news media picks and chooses the story angle that they want to portray - which usually is to inflame emotions... because that's how they make the most money.

    toledo.jpg
     
  2. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.
    Yeah... I can see this going sideways...

    But on a personal note- Most of the gang members I dealt with personally were from NY. Although I was in Florida, I knew most of the streets in NYC, and kept maps with "territories". I'd expel one, who would promptly move back to NY, and suddenly we had a new enrollment from the same street... Usually a "cousin". Gotta keep the business up and running... Where were the parents? Usually in the house that the kid paid for. That's one "benefit" to a lower cost of living that they don't tell you about...

    The few kids that I had from Chicago were extra interesting... Less focused on the business, and more on the banging.

    As harsh as it sounds, I actually enjoyed working with that level... If you "save" one of those, you've really accomplished something. Unfortunately, that was not the normal outcome.
     
    Walleye, Obsidian, BonsaiNut and 6 others like this.
  3. scottay

    scottay Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Gods Country
    Name:
    Scottay
    .
    .
    Sounds like "why was she dressed like that? She was asking for it!"
    .
    .
     
  4. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Before this goes off the rails, I'll throw in a little perspective.

    Do not conflate issues. I have seen a lot of rhetoric based on the logical fallacy that if we focus on one condition, that we are hypocrites for not focusing on all similar conditions. The illogical and dangerous conclusion is that we should focus on ALL or NONE, lest we be hypocrites. That leads to shrugging our shoulders and doing nothing. It IS possible and I submit necessary to focus on one angle of a tangential problem at a time - be it immigration, gun violence, gangs, homelessness, racism or policing.

    It is interesting, and probably horribly predictable that the issue of gang violence/gun violence in urban areas doesn't get much attention. Probably because the perpetrators and victims don't matter to anyone outside of the neighborhoods.
     
    Walleye, Obsidian, BonsaiNut and 4 others like this.
  5. scottay

    scottay Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Gods Country
    Name:
    Scottay
    .
    .
    In order to "focus on one angle of a tangential problem at a time" we henceforth will stop shooting/killing ya'll, but feel free to continue shooting each other! .
    .
     
    UPSed likes this.
  6. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Let me clarify - we can focus on many issues at one time - but it may be necessary to focus on a very narrow aspect of an issue (gun violence) rather than a sweeping "fix it all" approach. Workplace/school shootings are not the same as inner city gang violence which is not the same as police overreach, etc. Distinct problems need distinct attention and distinct remedies.

    Unless we all decide to just be nice to each other. That might take care of it. Someone should come up with a "golden rule" about how to treat others... :whistling:
     
  7. Derkderkall

    Derkderkall iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Monrovia
    Name:
    Derek Allison
    Current Bike:
    2020 Specialized Fuse 29
    Let's not skim over the fact that the officer was using technology,a strobe light, that they were probably not properly trained with.

    Proper training , or even reading the owners manual suggest that this is tool used in tandem with another office. This would mitigate the effects of the officer with the drawn weapon. Those effects being slow deliberate movements appear faster and thus more threatening as your brain tries to fill in the gaps as the light flashes off.

    Maybe the professional in this situation should be held to a higher standard than a 13 year old kid....
     
    Sasquatch9billion likes this.
  8. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower
    All I’m gonna say is I don’t have kids. But kids these days are much bigger and mature looking than they were when we were their age.

    how did the cop know he was 13 before the foot chase and shooting? Consider he was with a 20 y.o. and they were responding to a shooting. I don’t know how many of us have had the pleasure of running to a scene where a shooting is-has taken place.

    yup, we can train and train and train and train..:but we are human beings. “My dog is highly trained, and never bites anyone”...until it does.

    I understand the outrage...but let’s get the facts before we condemn an action one way or another.
     
  9. Danimal

    Danimal iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Mission Viejo
    Name:
    Dan
    Current Bike:
    Epic Evo
    If you want a better place to live, begin with your own neighborhood.
    I've thought this too many times, why don't they spend as much energy on demanding a safe place to live without the gangs. Why don't they spend as much energy demanding justice for those killded due to gangs.

    Think about it, only takes a moment to figure out.....
     
    BonsaiNut and Sasquatch9billion like this.
  10. Redman

    Redman iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Henderson, Nv
    Name:
    Kevin
    Current Bike:
    SC OG Hightower 29'r
    There is no such thing as "gun violence". This is a made up term to demonize guns helping to enable stricter gun laws. Violence cannot come from an inanimate object. Which is what a gun is, an inanimate object. Violence can only come from humans. It's not the gun causing the violence.
     
  11. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Troutman, NC
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    Yeah, that's why I was trying to frame it the way that I did. I'm not trying to suggest that people shouldn't have the right to feel safe in their own neighborhood. But we're talking about downtown Chicago here - not rural Iowa. If I wouldn't feel safe doing something... why would I let my 13 year-old son do it? I lived in the heart of downtown Chicago for over eight years, and never once was I not aware of where I was and what time of day it was - as an adult. The neighborhood we're talking about - you wouldn't feel safe driving down the street at noon on a Sunday. So why would you let your kids out on that street at 2:30 AM? As a responsible parent it makes absolutely no sense.

    We're not talking LA Skid Row here - which I used to walk through on an almost daily basis at lunch and never felt at risk. We're talking about Chicago - a city with hardcore gang violence on a daily basis - with murders occurring at the rate of about two per day; a shooting every 3 hours.
     
    Obsidian, Danimal and mtnbikej like this.
  12. Derkderkall

    Derkderkall iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Monrovia
    Name:
    Derek Allison
    Current Bike:
    2020 Specialized Fuse 29
    I haven't really been following the story to be honest, but a few thoughts come to mind...

    Key word you use, is responsible parent.. As I said... I haven't been consuming any media of this... so I haven't even had exposure to parent comments or anything.. but , as I "think" you might be trying to say.. there's an obvious lapse of judgment / responsbility on the side of the parent in this ...

    However..

    I teach at a school in a neighborhood that is in the top 5 of highest percentages for violent crime in LA, a neighborhood where we have to talk to our students about why it's not a good idea to wear that loose fitting white T as they walk to school. A neighborhood where there was an attempted drive by at the end of the street mid day while our students were leaving campus....
    I've spoken to many parents, who are trying their damnest to do what's right and keep their kids in school, safe, fed... etc. I've also seen many of these same parents in tears because they just don't know what to do, or how to help their kids. "They just do what they want", ""They won't listen to me", " They won't talk to me", " I don't know where they go", "they just yell at me and leave"... is the basic summary of the conversation.

    It's a hard, and heartbreaking situation. Maybe they don't have the parenting skills ... maybe they can't be a parent because they are at work for 20 hours trying to pay rent and buy food,... maybe the kid just gets trapped in the cycle....
    We can blame the parent, we can blame the kid, we can blame the cop, we can blame the gangs, we can blame the politicians, the schools, the media,..... society.. whatever the cause.. this is a community that needs healing.

    the obvious way to do that is with new bikes

    next time anyone here wants a shiny new carbon fiber bike... get the $4000 dollar model and and use the other g1 or 2 grand to buy some kids some bikes =)
     
    Walleye, Oaken, scan and 4 others like this.
  13. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Troutman, NC
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    You might find this interesting:

    https://crimeisdown.com/map

    In addition to being a streaming site for the police and fire scanners, you can select "gangs" on the map, and it shows you the unofficial gang boundaries...

    yIXu2qbi5m26IIq04DIx2K93r4tnz7fNkIFHLWavyRSLCz7jgGRux7uvlgXArYLV8Pu-NB1z7GRxe7YwQ4t34tyfmmg?fife.png

    Out7aw City ⭐✊️
    Rappers: NoGood Loso.
    Out7aw City aka NoGoods are Apache Stones from 87th Jeffery.
    OutlawCity is cool with the DBlock Apaches, and mainly beef with YatesMobb & NLMB.
     
    Faust29 likes this.
  14. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Yes and STRAVA doesn't cause douchebag riding - just encourages it. Alcohol doesn't cause alcoholism or drunk driving,, etc. etc. I know. We've had these semantic comments over and over. I would amend my post, but the edit button is gone. Feel free to replace my use of "gun violence" with "Lethal violence with firearms..." "Or - "Deadly shootings..." whatever makes you more comfortable.
     
  15. mtbMike

    mtbMike iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    PRESCOTT!!!
    Name:
    Mike
    Current Bike:
    Ibis HD5, Ripley & Mojo 4
    ....and you know ANY of this how? I can't speak for Chicago police officers specifically but as someone who actually did the same job for 29 years, I can tell you that the training is never-ending and always mandated by politicians who have most likely never spent a day working on the streets and have no idea what they are talking about. Quite frankly, actually DOING the job is 10X more effective than any "training" you get in a controlled environment. Once you get out on the street, it's a whole new ballgame as nobody "behaves" like they do in training scenarios.

    As far as this particular shooting, I've seen where evaluations and simulations have been done already and the entire incident took .87 seconds from Daunte pulling a firearm to the officer firing. It's easy to think that the officer had all day to decide if he wanted to go home that night when you watch the incident frame by frame but that's not how real life works. Everything happens in an instant and this shooting couldn't be any more justified.

    CE918267-D6A9-4D39-93B5-C18335217663.jpeg
     
  16. UPSed

    UPSed iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Simi Valley
    Name:
    Ed
    Current Bike:
    Niner Jet 9 RDO
    I did reality TV ride-alongs with several agencies for several years. We rode with hundreds of different officers and I can't think of any incident where I thought one of them was doing something wrong or abusing their authority. When I started, I was not pro law enforcement. Mostly because the CHP had an issue with me riding a motorcycle. :whistling:
    After just a few ride-alongs, I was amazed at much :poop: an officer has to put up with. For the most part people were respectful, but when they weren't? I don't know how they stayed so restrained. A lot of training for sure. We worked a lot of different areas and were actually in a few officer involved shootings. All I can say is your adrenaline is through the roof and you only have a split second to react and it is my belief your natural instincts take over. You can have all of the training in the world but you have no idea what you're going to do until you're in a situation and you have to react. We can Monday morning QB all day long but we don't know exactly what happened because we weren't there.
     
  17. Derkderkall

    Derkderkall iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Monrovia
    Name:
    Derek Allison
    Current Bike:
    2020 Specialized Fuse 29
    10 year old articles from police mag for one...

    Tactical Concerns

    When deployed without the benefits of an accompanying constant light (cover officer), a strobe light may make the user experience an inability to see or recognize subtle/deliberate slow movements made by the suspect.
    In training classes I am routinely able to move my hands eight to 10 inches before my threatening motions are recognized by the student who is exposing me to the strobe. Of course, my movements must be very slow and deliberate in order to avoid detection by the student.
    You're absolutely right though. These are split second decisions. I acknowledge what you have said and respect your experience. Not an unjustified situation Just unfortunate that maybe those few seconds where he tossed the weapon and put up his hands may have been distorted by the strobe.
     
  18. mtbMike

    mtbMike iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    PRESCOTT!!!
    Name:
    Mike
    Current Bike:
    Ibis HD5, Ripley & Mojo 4
    The article says it's 10 years old. I retired 6 years ago and once again can only speak for San Diego PD but we didn't use strobe lights on our pistols so that's not training that I ever received. I'd guesstimate that in "my time", 95% of officers didn't have lights of any type on their pistols. The exception was the guys in K9 who had to maintain control of their dogs. The rest of us had standard Streamlights which we bought ourselves because we were issued $20 (3) cell Maglights which were garbage.
     
  19. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Troutman, NC
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    Well I was Military Police, and all I can say is that at the locations I was guarding if I saw someone where they didn't belong, I was authorized to use deadly force. Shoot first, ask questions later. But then again, we were dealing with nuclear weapons...

    I wouldn't have the patience to reason with someone who is waving a gun around. As far as I'm concerned, the Police have that worst kind of job - all you can do is F@ck it up. No one hears about the 100's of times you help someone, save a life... you only hear about the 1 in 1 million interactions that turn sour.

    I love the Police. I wish I had an officer as a neighbor. I truly believe that the odds are better that they are a good neighbor versus a random luck of the draw.
     
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