OC Parks General Meeting on 01/09 to discuss E-Bikes

I’m sure he was referring to the one who dropped in after a few years absence to drop that pearl of wisdom. I lovingly call it the “sand throwing toddlers” argument...

The “bike” that Jason and I saw yesterday makes up for all the ones you didn’t see. I can’t say for certain that he went into the park, because we were a couple hundred yards from the entrance when he passed us. But... I had been seeing moto tracks all day in Chino Hills. He easily passed us at 40+ on the gravel next to the railroad tracks. I didn’t get a good look at it, because I was more focused on giving him enough room, but it had pedals. And it was pretty quiet for what it was.

 

I wonder when we find out

 

The “bike” that Jason and I saw yesterday makes up for all the ones you didn’t see. I can’t say for certain that he went into the park, because we were a couple hundred yards from the entrance when he passed us. But... I had been seeing moto tracks all day in Chino Hills. He easily passed us at 40+ on the gravel next to the railroad tracks. I didn’t get a good look at it, because I was more focused on giving him enough room, but it had pedals. And it was pretty quiet for what it was.[/QUOTE]

Lunacycle, M1Sportechnik and High-Power Cycles among others manufacture them. IMO, they're as illegal as ICE vehicles. Normally, electric motors are quiet, especially since some have composite gears, so policing is difficult.

 

Lunacycle, M1Sportechnik and High-Power Cycles among others manufacture them. IMO, they're as illegal as ICE vehicles. Normally, electric motors are quiet, especially since some have composite gears, so policing is difficult.[/QUOTE]


Oh, it was an electric bike....no ICE.

 

Oh, it was an electric bike....no ICE.[/QUOTE]

Intuitively, that's obvious. My point is they're being manufactured by several companies (of course, DIY is another option) and difficult to "notice" or police since they can be virtually silent.

 

Intuitively, that's obvious. My point is they're being manufactured by several companies (of course, DIY is another option) and difficult to "notice" or police since they can be virtually silent.[/QUOTE]

After he passed us, I remarked that there was no way in heck the park ranger would ever catch him... Pretty crazy.

Again... Not sure if he even went into the park. But I had been seeing regular moto tracks all day long on the single tracks. If he wasn't out there, someone else was.

 

After he passed us, I remarked that there was no way in heck the park ranger would ever catch him... Pretty crazy.

Again... Not sure if he even went into the park. But I had been seeing regular moto tracks all day long on the single tracks. If he wasn't out there, someone else was.[/QUOTE]
Which single tracks?

 

Which single tracks?[/QUOTE]

J can fill in the names better than I can, but I distinctly remember seeing some on Faultline East. I pointed them out throughout the day, though... We rode just about everything.

 

I ride CHSP a couple days a week. Have for years. On the whole scope of things, not a lot of single track out there as compared to fire roads, double track, etc. I have ridden faultline east quite a bit in the last two/three weeks because it is in such epic shape. A lot of work has been done lately (CCC/community service?). If there is any tracks that might resemble moto, it is probably mine since I am pushing 260-270 lbs totally geared up, running 18-20 lbs pressure on wide tires, and screaming up climbs at 15 MPH on a "class 1 ebike". Sure to spread out the tread appearance. I feel pretty confident that if moto was running out there, my old school cronies and I would have encountered them, at least once. Just my humble opinion.

 

Which single tracks?[/QUOTE]


I believe we saw them on East Fenceline and Bane Ridge. You could also see moto tracks on South Ridge coming up from Lower Aliso, and from Bovinian to Diemer.

 

Nah, I know what moto treads look like.

 

These were not e-bike tires... More like 1 inch knobs. And they looked just like the kind of tires that buzzed past us just outside the entrance...

There were a few spots that you could tell the Moto went through when it was wet. The tire tracks were plain as day... No reason to believe CHSP would be immune. The Oaks has had them lately, as has STT.

 

Maybe I should clarify. My response is all about exaggeration. MTBers being passed on the climb by Ebikes screaming by at 15 MPH endangering everyone. Motos screaming down the trail next to the tracks at 40MPH endangering everyone. Ludicrous!! You go over 20mph in or on any vehicle on that stretch, you're going airborne. And, BTW, that is not a State Park trail...so what. I've encountered plenty of vehicles, 4x's, motos, pickups, you name it on that trail. We have no more right there than they do. Point is, seems everyone wants to exaggerate something to further their personal agenda. I have lurked on this site for quite a while, before and after my acquisition of a Ebike. I have gleaned a lot of valuable knowledge here. I have "endured" being called a cheater on the trail by some punk-ass as he passes more times than I care to admit. Weak. Truly, what is this "hater" mentality. Are you really all about what's legal or is your agenda different? Do you really care about what is safe? Or is this about ego? I am sure we all fit into some category here. I was personally judgmental before I "went to the dark side". I get it. This is a great site and Mike, you deserve to admin and lead it as you see fit. It is yours as far as I can see. I am older and my best years are behind me but that doesn't mean that I am not entitled to figure out how to keep it going on some level. I probably don't belong on this site and that is why I try to stay in the background. I take that approach with my riding choices too. Much easier based on the current mentality. Apologize for the rant but I was just feeling it tonite. Out.

 

Yes. You know what? Let's just open all trails to full motos, 4xs, quads... whatever... Who's to say what kind of fun is better right?

Look, nobody here wants to deny someone their fun, or deny those who need it their assistance. But time, place and yes "need" matter.

 

I've seen moto tracks in dried mud on the Weir Loop.

 

After he passed us, I remarked that there was no way in heck the park ranger would ever catch him... Pretty crazy.

Again... Not sure if he even went into the park. But I had been seeing regular moto tracks all day long on the single tracks. If he wasn't out there, someone else was.[/QUOTE]

My wife and I were riding B* Motorway one day seven or so years ago and encountered three guys on ICE motorcycles. A little later a Ranger came along when we were on the Main Divide and we told him about them. He said he wouldn't try to chase them because if they got into an accident he was afraid the county would be sued.

 

You’re too far out there to warrant more of a response than this...

Have a nice day!

 

I can certainly understand that... Not worth it.

I’m still amazed when I see the car chases on TV. That was a culture shock when we moved here in 05.

 

Been off the bike for some time now. That OTB tumble before Christmas, it turned out to be a fractured elbow. Damn! It has been healing.
So i have been running/jogging instead, mainly on Bommer Ridge in El Moro. Nice sunset runs. I miss biking...
El Moro at sunset is nice. What is not that nice the many riders going out there at dark, against the rules. Together with the poaching, i am afraid MTBs may be at risk of losing access. Or perhaps just dont do it out of respect for the park/nature? Oh well... I did brush up Repo man (yup that is me).

 

Santa Cruz making their own ebike was my "nail in the coffin" scenario that they are going to be a regular thing. I seriously didn't think this day would come, but here we are. I suppose it makes sense that OC Parks is trying to modify access as e-mtb slowly becomes a new norm.

More info here:

https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/heckler

 

That was the hardest "Like" I have ever given. It was bound to happen, I suppose. wtf...
They are going to at least get an email from me even though I know they don't give a Sh!t...

 

Still doesn’t mean they are legal.

 

I just went to the Santa Cruz Website and posted this on their Contact Us page...

My question is a statement. Someone just posted on my mountain bike forum a picture of a Santa Cruz eBike. I own a 2018 Hightower. I was once proud of being a Santa Cruz bike owner. I felt like you were the great white hope for the cycling purist. But you sold out as well now. My website imtbtrails.com has been an avid proponent to this hostile takeover of our trails by motorized vehicles, and we have always referred back to Santa Cruz as still pure and clean. Your boutique status has eroded to commercialism and I am very sad. You make great bikes, but I have purchased my last Santa Cruz. Come visit us sometime at imtbtrails and at least listen to people who are real mountain bikers.. Take care!

 

The response...


Hello Mikie,

Thanks for your feedback.
We understand that the new Heckler is not for everybody, and we still have a healthy lineup of trail bikes that are in no way diminished by the existence of an e-bike. We are still soul riders at heart, and we developed the Heckler with that in mind, to offer a bike that allows real mountain bikers to go further and deeper more frequently. I think this video says a lot about our position on e-bikes.

Best Regards,
Ian B

so I had to respond

Hey Ian,
Someone already posted it on the forum. I watched it. As usual, it’s a good Santa Cruz vid. So Cal has experienced a lot of drama due to eBikes. State Parks are considering closing mountain biking access to the trail networks due to unruly eBikers, and the divide between mountain bikers and eBikers. Friction between eBikers and other trail users groups is at an all time high. Hikers don’t know the difference between the two and now clump us all in the same category.

So brother, telling me that the Heckler is not for everyone is a tremendous understatement. eBikes are turning the traditional cyclists world upside down. Santa Cruz is now a contributor to the division on the trail. My spouse has been passed on climbs by eBikers doing 15mph on narrow trails without any trail etiquette. No mention of passing and passing on either side. So how am I going to feel if my wife gets hit by a 15mph eBike? I hit a tree at 15 mph and it fractured my pelvis in two locations.

How many of those trails that Santa Cruz shot in that video were on motorized trails?

I certainly do not expect you to reply, and, that you replied out of kindness, and I appreciate that. But the drive for revenue in a new market such as this has certainly turned my 30 years of mountain biking inside out. It’s a sad day.
Take care Ian B.

Mikie
imtbtrails

 

Sorry, Mikie...

https://reviews.mtbr.com/understanding-e-bikes-in-downieville-and-the-lost-sierra

A snippet:

The Tahoe National Forest recently opened more than 200 miles of non-motorized trail to Class 1 e-bike use including favorites like Hole in the Ground, Emigrant, Sawtooth, Bullards Bar and North Yuba Trail in Downieville. These are in addition to the already 2,000 miles of roads and 195 miles of OHV trails in the Tahoe National Forest.

Additionally, Interior Secretary David Bernhardt recently issued an order allowing e-bikes to use the same trails in the National Parks System already open to traditional mountain bikes. This is a significant development and indicates the federal government is paying attention to e-bikes as a legitimate new form of recreation.

Edit: Of course they are also being sued for those decisions, so we'll see how it plays out in the courts. I know where my money is...

 

This is interesting......

 

I hope you meant opponent... however, I think they caught your intention.

I am very sad.

 

Yeah... I caught that after hitting send.

 

wow. I will totally donate to CAMBA. Id consider flying to Wisconsin for a trail work day.

SHARE can kiss my $@%#! until they get a clue like this guy.

 

I just wrote to Santa Cruz and Yeti. Can't wait to read the diplomatic marketing hype I am likely to receive in response!

I think I will get a two-word answer. "OK, Boomer."