Aliso-Wood and Laguna Coast Wilderness Parks

Discussion in 'Trail Advocacy' started by herzalot, Sep 4, 2018.


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  1. HBkites

    HBkites Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Huntington Beach
    Name:
    Sharone
    Current Bike:
    Why S7, Revel Rascal, Spark RC
    I was referring just to the MS portion (MS to 4C out and back).
     
  2. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Trail Stewardship Day Saturday Feb. 23, 2019. Canyon View Park staging area. Working on Rock-It (not sure what or why). There has been some talk in the past about making the end of the trail a little more interesting and less direct, but who knows?

    I am guessing Rock-It is the trail LEAST in need of tuning up after the rains, but I've given up trying to figure out what the lead digger at LCF is doing and how priorities are established. I will join in mostly to have access to the decision makers and plant some seeds of other priorities, and advocate for mt. bike related adjustments rather than the anti-bike contouring that is becoming the norm in OC parks.

    Click Here to sign up.
     
  3. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Troutman, NC
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    I missed this note when it was first posted up. You're lucky you weren't hurt (more). Without a clean line, that bridge goes from being a nice trail feature to a hazard. I honestly wonder how many people doing "trail work" even ride mountain bikes. Some of the work I have seen on trails would not have been done by even the most junior rider.

    Last time Motorway had major work done (before they reopened it after the last fire) some idiots went through and dug water bars so big they were actually worse than the trail damage they were designed to prevent. Better yet - several of the water bars were paved/lined on the top with grapefruit-sized rocks embedded in the dirt. WTF? Someone went far out of their way to install trail features that were both ineffective and dangerous.

    Sometimes I think it might be volunteers who are hikers and just don't know any better. But other times I have to assume the people are completely ignorant of what they are doing - and no one with a clue is supervising their work.
     
    DangerDirtyD and mtnbikej like this.
  4. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower
    Actually that was the Conservation Corps. that did the work on the Motorway. So established trailworkers....but I agree, it was badly done.
     
  5. Derek13

    Derek13 Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Costa Mesa
    Name:
    Derek Smith
    Current Bike:
    SC Hightower
    All signed up and looking forward to it. Thanks for link @herzalot
     
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  6. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    Just checked ocparks. Looks like Aliso is open, but Canyon Acres, Mathis, and Car Wreck are closed due to storm damage and maintenance.
     
  7. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Interesting. No time today, but I'd like to get in there and see the condition of the trails. Still pissed they did not allow our work crew in there yesterday to repair and/or tune up Meadows.
     
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  8. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    Im heading there right now
     
    herzalot likes this.
  9. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Thanks for chiming in.

    What can we do? Attend every single trail-related meeting held by OC Parks and Laguna Canyon Foundation. And as a group, we need to rein in other riders who are oblivious to or blatantly disregard basic trail etiquette and present themselves as dangerous, rowdy, rude and entitled to other trail users.
     
    mike, Faust29 and BonsaiNut like this.
  10. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.
    Josh was a Russian spammer. He's been neutralized by He Who Wields the Hammer. @Mikie :thumbsup:

    Kinda scary, though... He actually made a few posts that were on target. A new breed of scammer.
     
  11. FizzyCola

    FizzyCola Member

    Location:
    The soda aisle.
    Name:
    Dr. Thunder
    Crazy how a potentially new 2' wide single track trail can disrupt "sensitive habitat" way more than miles worth of toll roads through the same areas.
     
    Mikie, Grassblade23, Faust29 and 8 others like this.
  12. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    You know it!

    I remember the "Irvine Open Space - Wild Forever" signs that used to stand where the Crystal Cove shopping center and McMansions are now.

    But it's totally worth it to get a Trader Joe's in there!
     
    Faust29, DangerDirtyD and Rumpled like this.
  13. Danimal

    Danimal iMTB Addict

    Location:
    Mission Viejo
    Name:
    Dan
    Current Bike:
    Epic Evo
    Ha! across the street from me is " previous permanent open space". :bang:
     
    Faust29, DangerDirtyD and herzalot like this.
  14. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    Giant XTC with pedals
    East and west of highway 39 used to be open, too. But now it's "wilderness" and we can't legally go there.

    Be careful what you wish for.
     
  15. DBMX119

    DBMX119 Member

    Location:
    Huntington Beach
    Name:
    Rick McKee
    I rode Bommer and LCWP last night.... It's in rough shape. The stuff I saw in El Moro was equally as bad if not worse. Lots of rain ruts everywhere. The switch back climb on Stagecoach by the 73 has a big rut on a lot of it. There's a few sections I had to get off that I think MAY be rideable with enough momentum and line choice.

    Fenceline was in great shape overall. Shows how good drainage and trail building go a long way. All of the fire roads are beat up (much like you saw in Whiting).

    I don't think there's anything too major, and like how things are not perfect, but I have to say I was a bit surprised they were open given this litigious society we live in!
     
    Grassblade23, mtnbikej and HBkites like this.
  16. HBkites

    HBkites Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Huntington Beach
    Name:
    Sharone
    Current Bike:
    Why S7, Revel Rascal, Spark RC
    I rode my "regular quail loop", and same of the vanilla fire roads definitely have some additional character to them.
    I was riding my SS (first time in a long time), and I never felt the need to get off my bike. It looks to me that much of the trail damage was caused by heavy equipment.
    I went up West Fork, Bommer, Lizards, Loural, Serrano, and cattle Crest. All ridable condition.

    w2ChNU6p_5U-AXNMH4yg_QESWY-iVMzrnXN8mXbw8HI-1536x2048.jpg
    I found a few flowers and a billion butterflies (not pictured). Nature wow!
     
  17. knucklebuster

    knucklebuster Well-Known Member

    Location:
    34.2295° N, 117.2257° W
    Name:
    Dave
    Current Bike:
    Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail
    FYI, OCFA was dozing/scraping all the fire roads in Aliso today. Westridge up to TOW, Mathis and top portion of Rockit. Seems early but I guess just cleaning them up so they can get their equipment in there in case of fire or emergency. It doesn't bother me, just traverses to the fun stuff, except the soft dirt for a couple weeks.
     
  18. littlewave

    littlewave Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Newport Beach
    Name:
    Brett
    Current Bike:
    GG Smash (Alu)
    Will be going on all week, I believe.
     
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  19. kdiff

    kdiff Member

    Location:
    Aliso Viejo
    Name:
    Kurtis
    Current Bike:
    Nomad4 & 26” 5010
    ** will repost in a second, i'm having trouble with my posts not posting and then when they do it's not correct
     
  20. kdiff

    kdiff Member

    Location:
    Aliso Viejo
    Name:
    Kurtis
    Current Bike:
    Nomad4 & 26” 5010
    This thread was an interesting read.

    Did I understand correctly that Aliso/Laguna doesn't have much presence from a local mtb group vs other OC parks (e.g. SHARE at Oaks and Whiting)? If yes, why is it ignored vs the other parks?

    Also, I'm doing a trail day with LCF this Saturday. Are there any questions that you would recommend I ask in order to become better educated on Aliso/Laguna and/or general education?
     
    DangerDirtyD and herzalot like this.
  21. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Hard to explain. Even harder to understand.

    First - LCF is not a mountain bike coalition. They are a charged with managing and balancing recreation, protection and restoration of the area. They have to try to please hikers, joggers, bikers and the rare equestrian. Trail work is directed by a guy who seems inclined to slow bikes down as much as possible by making awkward humps and turns (i.e. the recent work on the top of Camarillo). He continuously claims his goal is to "keep water off the trails and the riders on..." but judging by the countless exits from the trail, he is not keeping riders on the trail through any kind of flow, and as for keeping water off, well, let's just say @kioti's work on Meadows and The Luge is far superior in that regard as well. There is a propensity for LCF to want to dumb down trails as well, in the name of sustainability. Luckily, they haven't done any real dumbing down to Lizard or the older part of Camarillo. I keep my fingers crossed that they do not dumb down 5-Oaks, Car Wreck or Stair Steps. Bottom line for me is the guy works hard, but he is hard to work with, and doesn't seem to understand modern mt. biking.

    From what I've seen of SHARE's work, I'm not convinced they are a great match for Aliso or LCWP.

    Then there's the OG trailbuilders in Laguna. They ride whatever the hell they want, because they built the "off menu" trails 30 years ago and still maintain them, and they will be damned if anyone is going to keep them from riding said trails. Unfortunately, their once-secret awesome trails have now been well publicized on social media, so everybody with a computer and a nice bike has to ride those particular trails and then boast about it very publicly. The massive increase in traffic on these trails in the last three years has forced rangers to take action about riding illegal trails (where they could pretty much just ignore it in the past).

    But all of that has already been said in this thread. Would a mtb specific coalition for advocacy and trail maintenance be helpful in Laguna? Not sure. I am pretty sure they would be overruled by LCF and OC Parks. That said, it's very important that (non-motorized) MtB voices are heard at EVERY opportunity.
     
    DangerDirtyD, tick, Obsidian and 3 others like this.
  22. kdiff

    kdiff Member

    Location:
    Aliso Viejo
    Name:
    Kurtis
    Current Bike:
    Nomad4 & 26” 5010
    Thank you for that. That gives some clarity into your question in my intro and some insight into some things I’ve wondered about with LCF as I get more exposure. (In retrospect I may have answered it slightly differently.)

    Am I wasting my time volunteering? I’m wondering if my time would be better spent at looking for career opportunities in an area where biking isn’t last in line. At times I’m very bothered that all types of trail users in SoCal don’t make a more significant effort in trail maintenance.
     
  23. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower
    HAHA!!!!! If mtn bikers were required to do trail maint., they wouldn't treat the trails like they do.
     
  24. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    You are not wasting your time volunteering. Thank you for doing so. There are times working with LCF that I just could not do what I was directed to do (like build a hump in a dumb location, or cut a drain in a dangerous spot), so I just did something else - shaved braking bumps, reinforced a berm, cleaned out an existing drain, etc.
     
  25. kdiff

    kdiff Member

    Location:
    Aliso Viejo
    Name:
    Kurtis
    Current Bike:
    Nomad4 & 26” 5010
    I get what you’re saying and regarding the drainage, I’ve seen it, but I can say as I and a couple others have had more time with LCF we’ve been able to tailor some of the drainage so it’s not as much of a hindrance. One or two maybe a slight positive change rather than a negative or neutral change. We are asked for our input on how a rider would handle some of these items. My thought is if we, mtb’rs, would consistently volunteer in a large number (e.g. 15+) then we would have a lot more power in the Aliso/Laguna trails and in the OC Parks. Now that the freshness of the LCF town hall has worn off, there have only been 2-3 volunteers that are mountain bikers. This is a pretty sad turnout.

    LCF’s town hall seemed like a gesture of reaching out and to me the message was clear: we need volunteers and we are asking the mtb community to participate. My impression of the audience was one of pretentiousness and arrogance. At least from many that were speaking out. (I can provide some examples if you would like.) In addition the audience wanted promises of more trails even though they aren’t willing to maintain what we have. It was an immature and shortsighted response on the part of the mtb’rs there.

    Neither side is perfect but at some point we all need to try and work together or this whole poaching then crackdown circle is going to just repeat itself over and over. I see what they have in Issaquah, Santa Cruz, etc and I would love to have that here. To be clear I don’t expect that to happen in Aliso but I think it’s possible in OC if the community would step up. Perhaps I’m naively optimistic?
     
  26. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    I am hopelessly optimistic too, with a modicum of current reality thrown in. I speak with Hallie Jones (LCF) on a fairly regular basis and appreciate the balancing act she is expected to maintain.

    LCF caps the volunteer work crews at about 10. I signed up for four trail work days after the Town Hall (and had done several prior). All of them were cancelled because it had rained - the BEST time to do the trailwork. LCF claims it was OC Parks who wouldn't let the work commence.

    Many MtBers at the meeting last fall suggested having a "go team" at the ready, to respond right after a rain. That didn't happen. As you know, planning a trailwork day months in advance relegates the work to brush and drains, and no tread work. Or at least, there shouldn't be any tread work when it's dry.

    So my question is this, why are the riders not volunteering to do the trailwork? Is it because of frequent cancellations? Capping participation? Working with a guy who is tough to work with? Frustration with the style of trail improvements? Seeing no point in doing trailwork when it's dry? Or are they just selfish and want others to do the work? I truly don't know.

    Thank you for your dedication to local trail advocacy. I will keep pushing the rock up the hill as well.
     
  27. Rumpled

    Rumpled Well-Known Member

    Location:
    OC
    Name:
    Jim Martin
    Current Bike:
    2018 Specialized Epic Carbon C
    How does OC Parks not oversee LCWP? Since it is an OC Park.
     
  28. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    Second that. Do you mean El Moro/crystal cove state park, Chris?
     
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  29. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    it was so frustrating this year, there was so much missed (cancelled) oppurtunity to do treadwork while the ground was wet. Just doesnt make any sense.
     
  30. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Yes, sorry. My error.
     
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