Aliso-Wood and Laguna Coast Wilderness Parks

Discussion in 'Trail Advocacy' started by herzalot, Sep 4, 2018.


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  1. Cisco Roots

    Cisco Roots Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Maple Valley WA
    Name:
    Cisco
    Current Bike:
    Yeti SB140 LR
    Yup! Hopefully someone with some composure and merit in case Mo Awesome shows up with his condascending attitude LOL. Good luck Y'all!
     
  2. mtbMike

    mtbMike iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    PRESCOTT!!!
    Name:
    Mike
    Current Bike:
    Ibis HD5, Ripley & Mojo 4
    Based on this photo, I hope you took your road bike :inlove:
     
  3. mtbMike

    mtbMike iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    PRESCOTT!!!
    Name:
    Mike
    Current Bike:
    Ibis HD5, Ripley & Mojo 4
    First off, yes, people are that stupid.

    However, I agree with herzalot that **legally**, people can absolutely claim ignorance and be 100% right. I ride up there maybe once every couple years and have no ideas whatsoever what any of the trail names are (other than Mathis and Car Wreck), how to get to them or whether they are illegal or not. I'm not going to re-post my signage argument again but no signs or other deterrents = open trail to the average Joe.
     
  4. littlewave

    littlewave Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Newport Beach
    Name:
    Brett
    Current Bike:
    GG Smash (Alu)
    Yes, I am planning on going.
     
  5. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Oh that is awesome!
    Thank you Brett!
     
  6. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Front Range, San Gabes
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Ssnake"
    Current Bike:
    YT Izzo
    Ignorance is another common human trait and it is not an excuse for anything. Assumption is ignorance.

    Offender: This trail is illegal? I assumed it was OK to ride it.

    Johnny Law: Well, you assumed wrong. Now, sign on the dotted line...

    I will bet the pinkslip to my bike that 90%+ of the riders at any given popular riding destination are completely familiar with the area, so playing dumb isnt going to work. Law enforcement knows that.
     
    Old&InTheWay, Mikie, Faust29 and 2 others like this.
  7. mtbMike

    mtbMike iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    PRESCOTT!!!
    Name:
    Mike
    Current Bike:
    Ibis HD5, Ripley & Mojo 4
    OK, just for you, I'll reiterate my post regarding signage. I worked in law enforcement for a total of 31 years. I spent 12 Summers working on a Beach Team writing so many tickets your head would spin (147 in one day on July 4th without moving 50 feet) for petty violations like riding on a closed trail. Needless to say, I've been to court hundreds of times and inadequate signage is a frequent argument made by those that received a citation. Luckily the City of San Diego has no problem with sign pollution and they are everywhere. Whether you want to believe it or not, adequate signage is required by law. Can a Ranger or Deputy write a citation? Absolutely. However, if there's inadequate signage and the offender goes to court, the charge should be dismissed. Down here in San Diego, some authorities wrote a plethora of citations at an area know as Tunnels several years ago before signage was placed and they all got tossed....the citations that is. My partner wrote 30+ tickets during the America's Cup one year in a an area where there *was* signage but the judge ruled the signs were spaced too far apart and the officer had to dismiss all the citations.

    One that blows me away to this day was an illegal U-Turn citation I wrote in Mission Beach. There was a sign at the intersection right next to the signal that said "NO U TURN". A guy made a U-Turn right in front of me and I wrote him a citation. Even though the offender was 100% English speaking US citizen, the citation was thrown out because it was supposedly required to be a "U" circled in red with a slash through it to be enforceable. Even cops don't know everything. That same "NO U TURN" sign is still there to this day, 15 years later.
     
  8. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.
    Thanks for giving us the law enforcement perspective... :thumbsup:

    And, just for the record, I got your signage argument the first time... :D:p
     
  9. konakc

    konakc iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    kc
    No i mean no one rides weir... its deserted.. compared to fully loop madness..
    Thats why weir is so awesome...
    Is there an ebike problem on weir? Never seen one there...
     
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  10. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Front Range, San Gabes
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Ssnake"
    Current Bike:
    YT Izzo
    I am pro-law enforcement, being raised in a family of such. I say write the tickets anyway because it still makes the offender, and oh yes, they are OFFENDERS, reconsider what they are doing. Heck if I was your CO when you were still in service, I would have had you continue to write citations even if we knew they'd get thrown out, until we were ordered to stop by a judge or higher power. You did good @mtbMike. :thumbsup:

    My point is, an offender is an offender and they know damned well they are offenders, whether there is adequate signage or not. Let the law enforcement "harassment" continue until the there has been an agreement reached between the users and the powers that be OR until the offenders stop offending. And not just in the area that this thread is about, I mean everywhere.:laugh:
     
  11. mtnbikej

    mtnbikej J-Zilla

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    J
    Current Bike:
    SC Chameleon SS, SC Hightower
    The ebikes are riding out there because they think they are hiding from the Rangers.
     
  12. Robbie

    Robbie Guest

    Cisco said "Up here in WA you have EMBA. I can tell you first hand that what they are doing up here in WA, they are doing it right. They work and build MTB specific trails"
    That's absolutely right. I grew up in and around Seattle, started mountain biking about 1996, and watched Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance grow from a grassroots volunteer group to an effective non-profit that has made a lot happen, especially in the last 10 years. Look at all the trail projects planned and in work from their website: https://www.evergreenmtb.org/trails/projects
    And this in a place where mountain biking is practically a seasonal activity due to the winter/rain.
    I believe they have paid permanent staff and executive director, lobbyists, get grants from state, local and city governments for trail building and maintenance. They have a good reputation with the land managers.
    I was surprised when I moved here I found there was nothing comparable, at least in OC and especially for Aliso/LCWP (besides SHARE).
    I thought with the population here, and the year-round riding, it would be different.

    Now I'm a hypocrite to call this out, because these groups rely on volunteers, and I'm lucky if I get to ride once or twice a week (and sometimes that's just a Floop), let alone have time to volunteer for advocacy or trail work. But I was a dues paying member of Evergreen when I lived there, just because they got so much done, I was glad to contribute.

    My suggestion? I don't know, help SHARE out some more I guess?

    PS I rode Aliso today, and saw quite a few bikes for a Monday, but not a single E-bike :)
     
  13. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Didn't know about the meeting tonight. I was at a different meeting - work related. Thank you to any Aliso rider who went and acted in a professional and diplomatic manner.

    BTW, I worked with Mo on his script for his next video. You may be surprised. Yes, he was sarcastic on one video, but he has been doing A LOT of thinking about this problem recently.
     
    MattB, Faust29, kioti and 4 others like this.
  14. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    If this video doesn't make you smile, you have no heart. I LOVE Gavin - and I've never met him.

     
  15. littlewave

    littlewave Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Newport Beach
    Name:
    Brett
    Current Bike:
    GG Smash (Alu)
    I went to the SHARE meeting last night. Not a whole lot to report. They were all aware of this thread, but had not heard anything from park sources re closure of trails to mountain bikes. Lots of other great discussions though.

    The next SHARE board meeting is October 8th at 6:30, location TBD. I encourage any of you OC dwellers concerned with mountain bike access to attend. It was very informative, and I will be attending and getting more involved to ensure not only continuing access to our parks, but more and better access.
     
    MattB, Oaken, Mikie and 12 others like this.
  16. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    The OC, Calif
    Name:
    Andy
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Chameleon
    I arrived late, so missed most of the meeting, so don’t have anything of substance to add

    But I believe the next meeting will be at the same Sharky’s (Newport Coast) again. Obviously I’ll update the site and FB as soon as I have 100% confirmation.
     
    Mikie, Cyclotourist, Faust29 and 4 others like this.
  17. MnMDan

    MnMDan Member

    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    Name:
    Dan Eitman
    Current Bike:
    Trek Superfly FS
    Lurking (as always), and yes I poach the occasional trail, and yes I engage the Rangers at every possible opportunity as well as other trail users...you never know when you might run into the "lever" that tilts things one way or another.

    This thread always comes up in (insert forum name) regarding (insert park name) because of (insert latest conflict) and will remain until (insert overreaction and eventual lethargic response) or we get tired of it and move on to something that affects only us in our backyard.

    OC Park Rangers are not law enforcement...they don't have the manpower, budget, or desire. If you want to know the difference, talk to an LA County Park Ranger or one out In Riverside, where the training and use of firearms is necessary because of the issues they encounter.

    The most basic level to voice concerns with the decision makers is to get involved in and around those who sit at the table. Without that, those who make the decisions lack the input or ability to make decisions that reflect the true breadth of the users of this resource. It can be SHARE, Rads, OC Government, Community forums, your local city's meetings regarding recreation, etc. Not all of us have the time to consistently participate, but try this: do it once a year. You may find out that you can do it twice a year. If everyone just gave a $&!? and did that (let alone engage in a way that the MTB community is heard and reputation enhanced through legitimate channels) we would be talking about things we'd rather talk about...like NICA, Kate Courtney, and the latest edit from Semenuk while waiting to drop in on a 1-way, MTB-only trail.

    Think about it...be nice, take small steps, be friendly to a hiker, a rider, a Ranger. Its hard to say no when you're engaging. Its easy to say know when you only show up to ask for something or complain when its taken away.

    Rant over.

    I'll be back next month...or on a topic that gets people excited about riding.
     
  18. Erik H

    Erik H Member

    Location:
    Altadena
    Name:
    Erik Hillard

    I'm really glad to hear that. SHARE members showed up to one of MWBA's trail work days and the guys were solid and energetic. With the population and number of riders down there, the SHARE membership really has no reason not to be robust and widespread. Support them. Go to their meetings. Sport a jersey and hand out stickers. A solid, organized, and respected advocacy group will go a long ways with land manager relationships. Mountain bikers need to earn their space at the table, its not going to be just offered. Sounds like everyone here is invested and has good ideas about your local issues. Be a part of the solution. iMTBtrails rocks.
     
    Faust29, Old&InTheWay, Mikie and 14 others like this.
  19. Rumpled

    Rumpled Well-Known Member

    Location:
    OC
    Name:
    Jim Martin
    Current Bike:
    2018 Specialized Epic Carbon C
    OC Parks Rangers are in fact law enforcement officers. They are POST certified, carry weapons and can cite and arrest.
    They have become more militarized. I've been to a few OC Parks concert and movie events recently and they are wearing tactical vests and weapons.

    Still haven't seen one on a trail in awhile.
     
  20. Mo Awesome

    Mo Awesome Member

    Location:
    In My Van
    Name:
    MoAwesome
    Current Bike:
    All of them
    Come on guys, you guys are slacking off. Video is up.

     
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  21. littlewave

    littlewave Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Newport Beach
    Name:
    Brett
    Current Bike:
    GG Smash (Alu)
    Ha, I was just about to post this up. Enjoyed the video Mo, hope to see you out on the trails (and at the next SHARE board meeting!).
     
    MattB, herzalot, Mikie and 2 others like this.
  22. HBkites

    HBkites Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Huntington Beach
    Name:
    Sharone
    Current Bike:
    Why S7, Revel Rascal, Spark RC
    I'm not sure why Mo think that the current groups don't represent most of the riders.... They may not represent most of the riders he knows!
    I believe that too many of us think that most other think like us. In fact, IMO most riders don't ride 6" bikes and believe that current "sanctioned" trails are challenging.

    I believe that his intentions are solid. I'm not sure they will change the way any rider ride.
    I hope that I'm wrong.
     
  23. mike

    mike iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    HT, FS
    This is serious bizniss edit
     
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  24. MrGreedom

    MrGreedom Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Name:
    Ryan
    Current Bike:
    BH Lynx6
    Welcome Mo, love your skills videos, and vlogs in general
    YYYEEEEEEWWWWWWW
     
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  25. MrGreedom

    MrGreedom Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Name:
    Ryan
    Current Bike:
    BH Lynx6
    @Mikie I like it wave the wand and change his name
     
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  26. tick

    tick Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Tick
    Current Bike:
    Process 111
    I’m really glad Mr. Awesome posted that.

    You are correct that he’s got a limited perspective, but it’s not unexpected given his relative youth and high level of enthusiasm. And I’ve got to admit that the existing advocacy groups would benefit from listening to fresh perspectives and advocating for MTB as it is, rather than MTB as they remember it.

    Tough issue though. We can be super neighborly and still lose out in the end. The crowds are just that bad.
     
    HBkites, Faust29, mtnbikej and 5 others like this.
  27. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    Giant XTC with pedals
    I would explain why you will lose the battle and the war if you continue with an accommodating, apologetic, let's just get along stance, but none of you want to hear it. So I'll leave you with two words that most of you can follow through to the necessary conclusions and resultant actions: Rosa Parks.
     
  28. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    ^^The battle's not lost because it's not a battle. It's an alliance.

    But it does need breath of fresh air, and Mo steps up and turns a negative into a positive. Best wishes to the new generation of riders on some of So Cal's best trails.

    Thank you Mo!
     
  29. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    Giant XTC with pedals
    Nope. It's a battle in the larger war about who has the right to access our public lands. The "concerned user groups" don't like mountain bikes and they don't care about statistics, or logic, or much of anything else. They only want mountain bikes eliminated from their environs. If you don't push back; if you don't claim your right to be there because you pay the taxes to allow it to exist, then you deserve to be excluded. It really is that simple.
     
    HBkites, Faust29, Mikie and 2 others like this.
  30. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    Well, we've got the right to be there. Or should I say privilege. It's in the original plan. Along with the option of adding trails, like has happened with Lizard, Mentally Sensitive and Car Wreck.

    Not saying we can't blow it.. but how 'bout we give peace a chance?
     
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