GPS Units for Exploration

Discussion in 'Computers/GPS SYstems' started by Mikie, Jul 10, 2018.


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  1. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    I have a mix of trails I like to ride.
    I have owned the Garmin Edge 705's for most of my modern ride time and the only GPS unit I have ever owned. All previous to that were just your cable operated to provide distance and speed stuff.

    As some may know, I really enjoy exploring new possibilities often off the beaten path. the Hightower is great for that as it has some very wide tires and very low gearing so as to work on softer ground of lesser traveled paths.

    Many times after pouring over Google Earth I see a potential route I would like to try. Often it is a combination of fire roads and off menu or secret singletrack that could easily be a cow trail, mountain bike, or moto trail and I won't know until I get there. Getting there has often been the problem!

    Remembering the rights and lefts and distances in between them can get me lost out in the field. Yes, I can make a path on Google Earth and then convert them to a .gpx or .kmz file then upload it to my Garmin, but that takes a lot of time. Often times there may be an alternate route once I get there that throws the whole prep out the window!

    So I guess I'm seeking a GPS product that can relate to STRAVA and has access to maps that include wilderness (not that I would go there, but mainly to have that level of detail). I guess I'm looking for Topo's that show Fire Road networks so I can know exactly where I am without a street sign :rolleyes:. I asked @evdog about one he got in a post somewhere but can't find it, and things and products are changing and improving all the time.
    So I thought I would throw it out there for everyone.

    Explorer's what do you use?
     
  2. doublewide

    doublewide iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Mark
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Tallcan
  3. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Thanks Mark!
    Oh, I may want to add that I am looking for stand alone hardware that bolts to my bike. I don't even own a Smart Phone. My company supplies a semi smart phone but it is so watered down for security, I can read my emails, texts and make phone calls and barely use the internet. What's the point... right?

    Mark, that is a good website with lots of good info. Thanks!
     
  4. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.
    Well... That shoots down my suggestions as well. Nothing like having the hi-res satellite maps for an entire area (or state) on your phone with a 5 inch screen.

    My phone GPS worked flawlessly while my Garmin did not in Oregon when I was socked in with zero visibility.
     
    DangerDirtyD, mtnbikej and Mikie like this.
  5. doublewide

    doublewide iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Mark
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Tallcan
    I'm sure somebody has an old/last years phone laying around they'd give you....
     
  6. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Good to know. I just think it is cheaper to buy a GPS once, then to pay for an iPhone on a monthly basis. A girl has to be frugal from time to time and a Smart Phone is not a big want or need in my life. I know... hard to comprehend... right?

    How would that work? Can an iPhone be useful without a carrier subscription? This is a world I'm not in regarding phones.
     
  7. doublewide

    doublewide iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Mark
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Tallcan
  8. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Front Range, San Gabes
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Ssnake"
    Current Bike:
    YT Izzo
    :eek:

    There's part of the issue right there. My friend, you can purchase a decent smart phone for dirt cheap nowadays. You can get on the spot updates of the progress of your ride (if you have a signal) by syncing your smart phone to your app through your GPS unit).

    It cracks me up when some of the riders I am with check their stats through a section we have just passed through to see where they placed when we are taking a break. But hey, that's where technology has taken us.
     
    Faust29, DangerDirtyD and Mikie like this.
  9. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
  10. pperrelle

    pperrelle iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Oracle, AZ
    Name:
    Paul
    Current Bike:
    Ripley V4 & Ripmo V2
    I've used the Garmin Topo and roads and recreation maps and they did not have that much data. I've had the best luck with the opensource maps. And they are free! You just need a garmin unit that can accept maps. The maps have streets, trails and fire roads. I have all of Southern CA loaded on my Garmin 520. See here for the link and directions on how to download the map and upload onto the Garmin.

    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/05/download-garmin-705800810.html
     
  11. Voodoo Tom

    Voodoo Tom MTB Addict

    Location:
    Castaic
    Name:
    Tom Kokkinakis
    Current Bike:
    Mango one, black one, Ti one
    Miss the turnoff for the "secret trail" on a hot summer day and see what happens @Mikie . Now your looking for a hi tech gadget to get us even more lost. How are we ever going to convince those angry ranchers and preserve employees(not that they'll ever catch us) that we are just lost and we simply hopped the last 14 gates and fences in an effort to try to find our way home before dark when you've got detailed info hanging on your handlebars?:Roflmao
     
    kioti, Old&InTheWay, Faust29 and 6 others like this.
  12. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Hah! I don't need or require that instant technical gratification... :gag: It's kinda fun to wonder how well you did on your ride and then upload it to STRAVA when you get home.

    :stop: I don't go to the movies to see the latest big screen event. I wait till it comes out on Netflix on DVD and rent it. :thumbsup:

    Cathy has a smart phone. An iPhone 6. Nice but not a need for me. I split the cost of a Shock Whiz with @Voodoo Tom and don't even have a smart phone to download the App to use it! :mad:

    I DO think that @doublewide is on to something of owning a smart phone for the App capability and I will definitely look in to that, as @Faust29 makes an excellent point related to large screen HD navigation.

    As always, imtbtrails delivers. This place continues to amaze me with it's positive outlook and encouraging help with fun thrown in the mix.
    If I were to ask this question on other sites (which I don't) in the past, I would often get some derogatory BS answer telling me why my idea was stupid, or unrealistic, or get answers that don't even relate to what I am asking. This is a great place...
     
  13. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Dammit Tom! Stop being so right all the time! :sneaky:
    I can tell you it's not just this one occasion. Before we really started riding together, I have come home so pissed off cuzz I could not find that "Next Turn" to get me where I wanted to go.
    Besides... It's not hard at all for me to look stupid in the eyes of an angry rancher... I can gain pity from them pretty quick with my puppy dog stoopid eyes and sorrowful appearing demeanor...:rolleyes:
     
  14. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Thanks Paul!
    I looked at that earlier this week. I need to get the 32gb chip for my Garmin and I was going to try that.
     
  15. doublewide

    doublewide iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Mark
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Tallcan
    With your spandex on they may be thinking you're a bit slow and rode the short bus as a kid....;)
     
  16. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    What do you mean as a kid?!?!?!?

    @Voodoo Tom? What bus is that, that I get on to ride to work now? :oops:
     
    Faust29, DangerDirtyD and doublewide like this.
  17. Sidewalk

    Sidewalk iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    The road is where I call home
    Name:
    Josh
    Current Bike:
    N+1
    You can use a smart phone for everything except phone calls without a cell network. You just use WiFi when you need data.
     
  18. Sidewalk

    Sidewalk iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    The road is where I call home
    Name:
    Josh
    Current Bike:
    N+1
    Personally, I am using an old Garmin 800 I found cheap online. It has base mapping that you can update with free services online. It isn't without flaw. Like all things, you have to be smarter than the machine and understand it is just a tool. But I do like it. At some point I will upgrade it to one with Bluetooth so I can connect it to my phone for other things.
     
  19. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    So... does anyone have an old smart phone they want to donate to a poaching mountain biker? ha hah...
    Thanks all!
     
    ~JB~, Faust29, Voodoo Tom and 3 others like this.
  20. Sidewalk

    Sidewalk iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    The road is where I call home
    Name:
    Josh
    Current Bike:
    N+1
    I break all mine :)

    This is my current phone. Though, I paid $40 for mine, and it is $50 a month (up from $40 after upgrading my data):
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01AHZUNB8/?tag=imtbtrails-20
     
    Mikie, Faust29 and Voodoo Tom like this.
  21. evdog

    evdog iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    Mikie, the GPS I have is the Garmin Oregon 600T. It is more for hiking/navigation and doesn't have any biking related features like heart rate monitor, etc. I like it for the mapping capabilities it has. I've always downloaded free topo base maps from gpsfiledepot.com, and installed them on the GPS. You can generally get base maps similar in detail to USGS topo maps. I haven't found them for all states and provinces, and quality can vary. There may be other sources for free maps too. The map that you can find and install is what will limit what you can do with the device on the ground. These base maps are often older and not up to date so they may not have off the menu or newer stuff. But sometimes they have trails that don't show on newer maps, which can be very useful. I can also install custom and other downloaded maps - basically, if a map is geo-referenced it can be loaded into the garmin and used.

    Of course you can do the same with smartphones now, as mentioned and the GPS will work in airplane mode. I am looking forward to the day when I can just carry a phone and not need a separate GPS unit. But for now I have a couple issues with using a phone for navigation:

    1) You can mount a phone to your bars but if you want to check the map chances are you'll have to stop and turn the screen on since it will want to turn off constantly to save batteries. This can be a pain if you need a password or fingerprint to access the screen. Maybe it is possible to keep the phone in visible navigation mode, but that is probably going to drain the battery in a hurry. A Garmin GPS is designed to be on and visible all the time, you can take a quick glance at it any time.

    2) Even though the GPS on a phone works without service, a lot of apps require cell service to download base maps as you go. If the app doesn't have a useful base map pre-installed or allow you to download and install one yourself, once you get outside of cell service all you will see is a blank screen with a dot showing where you are. Or at best a high level street map. Apps like Trailforks and MTB Project don't seem to allow you to download whole basemaps in advance which makes them less useful in areas without cell service. Maybe its possible, but I haven't looked into it much yet. Apps like Gaia may be better.

    Phones keep getting better and better. Eventually they will replace standalone GPS entirely. I won't buy another GPS until Garmin incorporates satellite communication functionality from Inreach into the existing user interface of Garmin units. Garmins have a nice easy to use interface. My Inreach is clunky and a pain to use.
     
  22. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.
    Not only did he ride the short bus. They made him wear a helmet.

    IMG_1443.jpg
     
  23. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Front Range, San Gabes
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Ssnake"
    Current Bike:
    YT Izzo
    Mark's idea is directly connected to mine.
     
    doublewide and Mikie like this.
  24. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    This is just proof that once it's out there, it never seems to go away and that it WILL be used against you. I knew this pic would pop up for this moment of Short Busdom...:oops:
     
  25. Marty657

    Marty657 Member

    Location:
    Upland
    Name:
    Marty
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz TB2C
    What Sidewalk said. Another feature I like on the Garmin is the Return to Start function. If you record your ride and get lost you can follow it back to the start.
     
    kioti, Old&InTheWay, Mikie and 2 others like this.
  26. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.

    For #2:

    That's not how they work nowadays, is it? When you sign up for MTB Project, which is the one I've used the most, you have the option which state(s) you want to download to the phone. I had zero cell signal when I used the app, and was so dense in the trees and fog that my Garmin was unable to maintain a GPS signal. I was still able to see my position and a hi-res satellite image of my area in the MTB Project app on the iPhone. Oakridge, Or in that case...

    It worked so well that I never pulled out the $12 paper map that I purchased at the bike shop.


    Edit: It sounds like you get the basics for off-line and the more detailed maps when you're connected?

    Does the app really work offline?
    Yes! Even without cell service, you'll be able to see the trails and your location on the map. If you know you'll be taking the mobile app off the grid soon, you'll have an even better experience if you take a moment to scan around that area before going offline. This will allow the app to cache the background map. The trail and ride lines will display clearly whether you take this extra step or not, and you should always be able to see a blue dot indicating your exact location on the map.
    How often is the data in the app updated?
    The mobile app will automatically check for new data every two weeks based on your date of install. The data is updated weekly on Friday evenings. If you want to ensure that you have the most up-to-date information in your pocket for the weekend, you can delete and reinstall that area after the weekly update. Otherwise, your app will automatically update every two weeks.
     
    HBkites, kioti, doublewide and 4 others like this.
  27. ~JB~

    ~JB~ Member

    Location:
    Murrieta/Temecula
    Name:
    Juan B Garcia
    Current Bike:
    2019 RFX
    Have a Samsung S5 - Mikie..
     
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  28. floyd

    floyd Member

    Location:
    anaheim
    Name:
    garret
    Current Bike:
    5010
    A cheap phone has such a better screen than any of the dedicated GPS devices out there, it really works so much better for exploration. I've got an android I paid $10 for I take as an emergency backup sometimes.. But I usually just have my iphone in my pocket. Just make sure the map data is already downloaded for offline usage ahead of time as mentioned.

    I do like using garmins though so I don't have to pull my phone out at every intersection. I've got a garmin montana I use for motorcycles.. It's as good as it gets as far as a dedicated gps.. but it still has a crappy screen and buggy software. It's got some sweet features though like ability to share routes wirelessly. I've even used an old garmin nuvi (made for cars..) that I got for like $10 on ebay. That thing actually was nearly as good as the montana.. it just lacked the ability to load routes ahead of time.
     
  29. muni

    muni Member

    Location:
    Downtown Los Angeles
    Name:
    Mike
    Current Bike:
    17 Yeti SB5
    One tip, you should always be in airplane mode so you phone doesn't die. GPS works in airplane mode and even with the MTBproject app. I found out the hard way not knowing a trail and phone dying half way through the ride.
     
    HBkites, kioti, doublewide and 3 others like this.
  30. evdog

    evdog iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    I seldom use MTB project as I find Trailforks is more complete for most areas I ride. But yeah, my understanding is you get more basic maps when out of cell service. They work fine in that case for following a route. But, if you want to see detailed topo map then you are often out of luck unless you have cached it ahead of time, as mentioned. I sometimes thing ahead enough to do that, but not always at high enough zoom. For my Garmin I can download a very usable base map, there is no reason why this shouldn't be possible with apps like Trailforks and MTB Project as well. It very well may be possible and I just need to do some digging. Satellite imagery would be nice too but that might be asking too much....

    My Oregon 600 has a nice screen and easy touch interface that is comparable to my phone - for me, the screen is no longer a negative for the Garmin. My older Oregon 400t and my car GPS are hard to use by comparison.
     
    Mikie, Old&InTheWay, mtnbikej and 2 others like this.


As a former Amazon Associate I continue to get screwed trying to stay qualified as an Amazon Affiliate. So I quit!


Want to donate to imtbtrails?