Wilderness adventures, close to being legal

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by da big hills, Dec 12, 2017.


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  1. da big hills

    da big hills iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    pearl harbor
    Name:
    cagey
    Current Bike:
    enduro 29
    “Rugged, self-reliant adventurous travel is the signature wilderness experience and that’s exactly what human-powered mountain biking is,” Stroll said, including the rapidly growing sport of “bike-packing” into areas long the domain of backpackers.
    The International Mountain Biking Association, however, opposes the bill, much to the consternation of many of its members.
    From the San Fran Chronical.

    They do note that we are the ones that keep most trails open, and that many trails are just a trace since they are never used. We do account for 80% of trail users. They will never let us on the "popular" trails AKA John Muir Yosemite to Desolation Wilderness but most of the trails could become legal. AKA Bright Angel trail at night, now that is a drop with major exposure. The hikers can have sunrise to sunset, but we own the night. Then again there is nobody out there at night to stop us now.

    I was one of the original supporters of IMBA and CORBA. Now I am ashamed of the IMBA, and CORBA once they started to ticket 10+ mph speed demons. Of course the places I ride are wild and empty so I do not ever see those yellow jerseys

    Happy open trails
     
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  2. Cyclotourist

    Cyclotourist iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Redlands
    Name:
    David
    Current Bike:
    Don't fence me in!
    Thanks for the article! Here's the link: http://www.sfchronicle.com/science/...seeks-to-open-federal-wilderness-12425703.php
     
  3. evdog

    evdog iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    Well the good news is the bill passed the committee vote. Not the first time, but they held a second vote and it passed.

    The bad news is we won't be riding Wilderness trails any time too.

    Passing committee is just a small step. It still has to be brought to the House floor and win a vote there. Then I'm sure the senate has to have its way with it too.

    Even if it does get passed and signed into law, we won't be riding bikes on Day 1. It could take years to add bikes through forest plan updates or whatever process BLM uses.

    It's pretty sad they can take access away with the stroke of a pen but it takes years and acts of congress to get it back....
     
    kioti, mtnbikej, Mikie and 5 others like this.
  4. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    Giant XTC with pedals
  5. SingleTrackJB

    SingleTrackJB Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Newport Beach
    Name:
    SingleTrackRider
    I dont understand why we would necessarily have to bike everywhere. There are enough places to bike arent there?
    It is the same thing in our local parks. We dont need trails everywhere. First priority is conservation and care about nature. We dont always come first. Just my few cents..
    Although I am sure there are cases to be made in some areas...
     
  6. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    Troutman, NC
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower CC XX1
    We don't need to bike everywhere. Heck, we can't bike everywhere in Whiting Ranch or Aliso / Wood Canyon. But right now we are blanket prevented from taking a bike ANYWHERE in a Wilderness area - even if the rangers decided they wanted to allow it. Just because someone creates a law saying it is legal to allow it, doesn't mean it will be allowed.
     
  7. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    [Retracted]

    Okay...

    I took a sedative.


    Here is the big picture. Special interest groups are using the Wilderness designation to close off even existing trails. By REMOVING bicycles from that inclusion, it gives us a fighting chance to hold on to what we DO have, AND, it gives organizations a chance to make some amendments to existing Wilderness areas where it makes sense to allow cycling wilderness located trails. This removes "Wilderness" as a tool to shut down cycling access. This HAS to happen.
     
  8. mike

    mike iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    HT, FS
    I don’t belong to a political party, but painting those not of your political stripe with a broad brush is not helping our situation.

    Maybe IMTBT should have a thread where all the political raving can be kept in one place, so visitors don’t think we’re a bunch of finger-pointing loudmouths. Or…you could take the sedative pre-emptively.

    :)
     
    Faust29, MattB, rossage and 9 others like this.
  9. jimbowho

    jimbowho Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Podunk KS
    Name:
    james jim jimmy
    Current Bike:
    GT sensor
    I disagree Mike. Making it well known which groups are flat out responsible for us being excluded from responsible recreation is important. I once had experience in the fight, and traveling to Bishop-Sacramento-L.A.. sucked, but I got involved. And I learned Democrats\liberals/environmental groups (all Dem) are NOT interested in anything but hiking. Unless they have a jeep, then the hypocrisy comes into play. The only finger pointing loud mouths I ever witnessed were unruly enviro-people.
     
    CarlS, HBkites, hill^billy and 8 others like this.
  10. BigTex

    BigTex Member

    Location:
    Ladera Ranch
    Name:
    Richard
    Current Bike:
    Pivot Les
    So you'd fully support the creation of the Santa Ana Mountains/Cleveland NF Wilderness area, with the immediate ban on bikes that comes with it? Bye bye, Holy Jim. Adios, Trabuco. So long, Motorway. That's what has happened to a lot of people - the areas in which they've been riding for years, maybe their whole lives, are designated WA or WSA and, poof! their trails are gone. A lot of other trails that exist outside WAs, but cross them at some point, are eventually lost as well.

    The key point in the bill is that local land managers have the ultimate discretion. While this has good and bad aspects - a new land manager can reverse the decision of the previous, just as Trump can reduce the size of Bears Ears or Escalante - it means that instead of bikes being automatically banned, they're acceptable where land managers deem them to be. It takes the act that allowed for the creation of Wilderness Areas back to its original intent.

    And if you really want people to care about nature, the best way to foment care for preservation of natural lands is to allow them to enjoy it.
     
    herzalot, HBkites, Faust29 and 13 others like this.
  11. Cisco Roots

    Cisco Roots Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Maple Valley WA
    Name:
    Cisco
    Current Bike:
    Yeti SB140 LR
    One of the reasons why I love this forum is because it is a place where I can go to escape the everyday drama that is our current political climate and just talk about something we all love, which is Mountain Bikes. Now we are bashing Democrats and liberals!? Well many of you who know me well know where I stand in terms of political affiliation, but in the interest of harmony, I refrain from voicing my opinions.

    I'm totally into debating land access and bills but I think we should keep our political opinions to a minimum or we might begin to lose people here, just my thoughts.
     
    Oaken, Andy, HBkites and 15 others like this.
  12. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Admittedly I had a moment. And I apologize to all. I live in California and the only News Radio I get is KNX which aligns with California politics. Been very frustrated with the direction California has been heading for a long time.
    Again. My apologies!
     
    CarlS, HBkites, Faust29 and 11 others like this.
  13. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    The point being made here however is that we are a mountain bike site, which is something I have postured from the "get go". Me breaking the rules is just a viable as any member breaking the rules. I broke the rules by attacking a political group that many here may associate with. Just because I may disagree with that political party we need to focus on the issues provided by the diversity and not attack the group itself. I was in the wrong for the public comments.
     
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  14. Cisco Roots

    Cisco Roots Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Maple Valley WA
    Name:
    Cisco
    Current Bike:
    Yeti SB140 LR
    All good Mikie! Big hug bro! Miss riding with you and all the fellas!
     
    Faust29, MattB, mike and 6 others like this.
  15. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    I want you BACK dude! Come Back! Fun times on the trails.... :)
     
    Faust29, mike, kioti and 5 others like this.
  16. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    CA
    Name:
    Chicken Nugget
    Current Bike:
    2018 Guerrilla Gravity SMASH
    Ok calm down everyone. I’m here now. Here is what you all should embrace in your everyday lives:
    :poop::poop::poop:
    Am I right!!? Or does anybody want to deny this?

    Somebody get the phone book!
     
    herzalot, Faust29, mike and 3 others like this.
  17. hill^billy

    hill^billy iMTB Rockstah

    So it’s agreed, sex and politics won’t be mentioned because it is an unavoidable subject that pertains to all thought processes. Forgive me father for I m not worthy, last time religon will be mentioned, I promise. Try not to slip?:(
     
    herzalot, Faust29, mike and 5 others like this.
  18. SingleTrackJB

    SingleTrackJB Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Newport Beach
    Name:
    SingleTrackRider
    Thanks guys , those are points well made and i just dont know enough about the topic i think.

    What i would like to see though is that there should be at least some places in our country where it is and remains pure wild.

    Happy biking !
     
    HBkites, Faust29, MattB and 8 others like this.
  19. littlewave

    littlewave Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Newport Beach
    Name:
    Brett
    Current Bike:
    GG Smash (Alu)
    So, like, no humans allowed?
     
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  20. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    CA
    Name:
    Chicken Nugget
    Current Bike:
    2018 Guerrilla Gravity SMASH
    Only folks who can flintknap should be permitted.
     
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  21. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    Giant XTC with pedals
    My flint comes with a rough piece of steel. And I have sticks with self-combusting heads. :thumbsup:
     
    Old&InTheWay, Mikie, Faust29 and 2 others like this.
  22. mike

    mike iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    HT, FS
    This is the type of divisive, broad-brush language I'm talking about – the kind that the site owner was gracious enough to remove for better judgement. Of course there are Democrat and liberal MTB enthusiasts – who would even believe this BS assertion?
     
    Sidewalk, Old&InTheWay, Mikie and 7 others like this.
  23. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Well that's an over-generalization meant to do nothing but polarize... And it's very, very wrong. Hypocrisy knows no party lines, my friend.
     
    Sidewalk, mtnbikej, mike and 6 others like this.
  24. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    Giant XTC with pedals
    Designation as wilderness was supposed to be restricted to untrammeled, untraveled, pristine areas, and it was never intended to shut out any form of human-powered transport. One need only read the act itself to get that.

    However, there are places where bikes are not appropriate, just as there are places where horses are not appropriate. Angels Landing trail and the Narrows in Zion, and Upper Yosemite Falls and Half Dome in Yosemite, for example. Physically not possible to ride a bicycle or horse on either of those. But there are more than couple of trails in both of those parks that are eminently suitable for bikes yet closed to them. Mirror Lake to Tenaya and the Valley Loop trails in Yosemite should be open to bikes. Bridge to Nowhere trail out of East Fork in the San Gabriels, along with Icehouse Canyon. Most of the hiking trails along Angeles Crest and San Gabriel Canyon. Even (gasp!!)) the Perfect Cycling Trail through that area.

    The San Gabriel "wilderness" areas are full of forest roads and singletrack trails that are perfect for mountain bikes. Designating it as a wilderness doesn't change that, and should not preclude it. I use this as an example because it's local to most of us and is easily understood to be a stand-in for those places like it in other parts of the country, where the wilderness designation has been abused.
     
    Sidewalk, mtnbikej, MattB and 6 others like this.
  25. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Once the populace got ahold of the LA Times article, the same in general attacks came forth from an opposite core value. As I read them, I realized they were marketing the same generalizations about my user group and I thought to myself, that’s not very productive or even true, so.. it’s now riddled with responses from some guy named Mike with a bunch of numbers after his name...:whistling:

    My suggestion is this...
    The original intent of imtbtrails is to provide a place that a diverse group of people can come to that have the common interest of bicycles (mountain bikers to be a bit more specific) and have a safe fun place to talk bikes, talk schmack, and cuss and discuss real issues without attacking each other. In my own frustration, I broke my own rules, but I apologized to the membership and retracted my post. I would ban me but you guys would be screwed...(joke).

    So my thoughts are that we return to always have good intentions in our posts, and when someone writes something that could potentially be misconstrued, then as the reader, we resort to believing the poster had good intentions when they authored it.

    This makes for an environment I believe that imtbtrails is now known for.
    I thank everyone and assume we are all good with this.

    ;)Mikie
     
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  26. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.
    I made popcorn for nothing. :thumbsdown:






























    :p
     
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  27. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    CA
    Name:
    Chicken Nugget
    Current Bike:
    2018 Guerrilla Gravity SMASH
    Who put the chicken nugget in the sauce?
     
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  28. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Preventative medicine Brothah... ;)
     
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  29. mike

    mike iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    HT, FS
    Thank you for affirming! That's why I'm here. :thumbsup:

    Are you gonna make me carry your carcass out of the BC? Are you interested in fun for fitness? Can you clean that section? Are you sure that hardtails rule? That FS rules? Do you see bikes as a means to make our population healthier? Do you care about resource conservation? Do you wanna push yourself and take calculated risks? Do you like shortening your rides by going fast? Do you know how to fix bike problems? Are you a lightweight? Do you think you're badass? Hate HAB? Love suffering? Whack off to Strava? Live in a tent? Hate or love color coordination? Have passion for riding mountain bikes with all other criteria secondary? I wanna know (well, maybe not the Strava part), cuz that's all I care about here. You can be almost anything you want and I won't care as long as you like MTB. :geek:
     
  30. jimbowho

    jimbowho Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Podunk KS
    Name:
    james jim jimmy
    Current Bike:
    GT sensor
    I guess I'm the black sheep. So then I decided to go back to my post and apologize, recant, change my 40 years of personal experiences to be more in line with a kinder gentler more caring point of view. But then I ask myself, am I going to make s... up so people will like me? NO. Could I be so wrong? Maybe so. Sometimes you have to stand your ground in what you believe in. Will I post in any political conversations ever again on IMTBTRAILS? Not bloody likely. E-bikes maybe, and if I hurt anyone's feelings it's because you don't know me. If you're an offroader you have my respect. Merry Christmas
     
    CarlS, Old&InTheWay, herzalot and 8 others like this.
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