Mt. Wilson Trail, Upper Eaton Canyon, Gabrielinio Trail

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mike, Jan 31, 2018.


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  1. mike

    mike iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    HT, FS
    Can you guys shed any light on these trails in terms of hiker conflicts?

    I'm having a discussion with a guy who is opposed to bikes in all wilderness, and he cited these trails as being used by riders who don't yield to hikers. You guys are there, I don't know these trails. TIA for any intel.
     
  2. doublewide

    doublewide iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Mark
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Tallcan
    I know people shuttle Mt. Wilson...I've never done it tho...
     
    mtnbikej, Mikie, DangerDirtyD and 2 others like this.
  3. UPSed

    UPSed iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Simi Valley
    Name:
    Ed
    Current Bike:
    Niner Jet 9 RDO
    And for the most part those would probably be the ones least likely to yield.
     
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  4. mike

    mike iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    HT, FS
    Makes sense, thanks, Ed/Mark.
     
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  5. rossage

    rossage iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    East Sacramento
    Name:
    Ross Lawson
    Current Bike:
    Highball
    Those are all trails on the front range just north of Pasadena/Arcadia. No one should be riding in Eaton Canyon. The other 2 trails can be shuttled in some way. The Wilson trail has long been known for user conflicts and is heavily trafficked in both directions. The Gabrielino runs from Chantry/Arcadia to JPL/Altadena and also gets heavy traffic on both ends. The Gabrielino is closed from near Switzers to JPL but there is evidence of poaching as indicated by bright blue spray painted arrows where the trail is missing or hard to follow.
    FWIW, I ride these trails all the time and I have had conflicts with shuttlers who believe that their "payment for a downhill" entitles them to Rampage the trail at their discretion. Fellow Mtbers and other trail users be damned.
    If it can be shuttled, some lazy F@ck will find a way to do it, and drag his brake through every switchback to let you know he was there....
     
    redwoods, mtnbikej, MrGreedom and 9 others like this.
  6. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    CA
    Name:
    Chicken Nugget
    Current Bike:
    2018 Guerrilla Gravity SMASH
    Git’ Out Da Way, Sausage Man!
     
  7. mike

    mike iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Western US
    Name:
    Mike O
    Current Bike:
    HT, FS
    Thanks for taking the time, Ross. Awesome feedback.
     
  8. burt

    burt Member

    Name:
    burt
    Similar experience as Rossage; SCOA and other services are a significant source of uninformed trail users.
     
    mtnbikej, herzalot, rossage and 6 others like this.
  9. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Front Range, San Gabes
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Ssnake"
    Current Bike:
    YT Izzo
    Personally, I don't consider Eaton Canyon anything more than a hiker's trail. I have seen heavy foot traffic on the Wilson trail but light foot traffic on any of the Gab sections, compared to wheeled traffic. After hundreds if not thousands of encounters with hikers/horse riders in the San Gabes, I have never had a conflict or bad experience. Nor have I seen any issue between other parties.
     
  10. evdog

    evdog iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    San diego
    Name:
    Evan S
    Last time I rode that area I was climbing up Upper Winter Cr. I pulled over to let a woman (hiker) and her friend pass just as they stepped off the trail to let me pass. After pointing out that it was my responsibility to yield, not hers, her cold reply was that I would have run her over had she not yielded. She wasn't joking, she was 100% convinced that this would happen. Personally I think this perception comes because a lot of riders don't slow down at all when passing hikers who have stepped off the trail. They just blaze on through. Really stupid thing to do IMO. If they say anything it might be "5 more coming."

    We had a bit of a conversation and I tried to point out the physics of a crash to her - that the rider would have a bad outcome just like the hiker, and bike or rider (or both) would likely tumble off the trail. But she was not to be convinced, and of course had a "friend" who had been run over. Every hiker who hates bikes has a story of a friend who has physically been run down by a bike, or run off the trail by a bike, or seen a puppy or baby killed by a bike, or whatever other malicious act they can think up.

    A big problem mountain bikers have is much of other users' perception of us comes from front country trail systems where the majority of trail users (of all user groups) spend most of their time. These systems, such as the Mt wilson trails, attract the full spectrum of attitudes, skill levels, and knowledge of trail/outdoor etiquette. Unfortunately people have sometimes have bad experiences with bikes and assume that the same issues and high traffic will occur if bikes get access to wilderness. All you have to do is go spend time on backcountry non-motorized trails to know this will not be the case. Until a shuttle company starts running van loads of riders down a trail, of course. Fortunately most backcountry and wilderness trails do not have shuttle accessibility.

    Any time I'm discussing wilderness access for bikes with someone I always point out that there are different types of riders, and different types of trail systems. Of that full spectrum of riders, not that many would be willing to put in the work to access backcountry wilderness. Most riders just want a familiar ~12-15 mile loop of flowy trail they can rip after work or before the wife pulls their man card on Saturday. Just compare traffic on San Juan vs Pinos, or the Luge vs Joplin. All of them are in close proximity but Joplin/Pinos are harder to access, more work to ride, more remote, and more challenging. Now, put those same trail systems up in the sierras a few hours further from major population area, like Kernville. Then you have a situation where plenty of people will go ride Cannell or JO but mostly because of the hype and the shuttle service. But very few riders know about the other trails in the area or if they do, don't bother to ride them - they are a bit harder to access, more work to ride, more remote, and more challenging. This is why I'm not concerned about bikes in Wilderness. In places where a trail does become popular enough with bikes that it causes conflict, USFS and BLM have processes in place to deal with it. Permits, use restrictions, temp closures, etc. Generally in the back country users are well behaved and get along.
     
  11. SnakeCharmer

    SnakeCharmer iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Front Range, San Gabes
    Name:
    Mike, aka "Ssnake"
    Current Bike:
    YT Izzo
    Yep, it only takes a few jackasses to mess it up for the respectful, considerate riders. Once a hiker has had a bad experience, they generally expect the worse from other riders from that day forward.

    And there really are some shuttlers out there who think that everyone should just get the f*** out of the way, even other cyclists!
     
  12. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    CA
    Name:
    Chicken Nugget
    Current Bike:
    2018 Guerrilla Gravity SMASH
    Like the Sausage said, those trails are along the front range, with 10 million people buzzing around down below. High density = intensive use, so much so that the expectation among hikers is that all cyclists riding the Mt. Wilson network of trails must have a bell on their bikes to alert hikers.

    The shuttle crowd often is dense, sometimes physically as well as mentally, and a poor interaction between Trail users does not help the MTB community.

    With that said, lazy is a relative term. Some people’s time in a given week is spent working, and MTB is limited to just a few hours during that time period. The result is a physical inability to climb more than, say, 3,000’ and a desire to maximize the fun time spent on a saddle.

    With that said, fun is a relative term. Some people enjoy climbing, sure, but those that do tend to climb often. This classic case of the chicken or the egg means less time on the saddle = a preference for shuttling...and Mt. Wilson has the goods.
     
    mtbMike, RS VR6, mtnbikej and 7 others like this.
  13. kioti

    kioti iMTB Rockstah

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Current Bike:
    ibis ripley
    When you say chicken, you mean nuggets, right?
     
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  14. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    CA
    Name:
    Chicken Nugget
    Current Bike:
    2018 Guerrilla Gravity SMASH
    LOL!
     
    mike, kioti and Cyclotourist like this.
  15. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    I hear you, but your number is way off. I would put that number at 1000'. I work my ass off to climb for the goods. Everyone knows I dislike climbing, but I do it because it's good for me and I like the feeling at the top. But a good day for me is 3000'. And that from a guy who rides hard every weekend.

    The guys you are referring to can't/won't climb more than 1000' in a given day.

    I've said it before, I'll stick by it. Do not shuttle trails for DH purposes if it's multi-use and multi-direction. San Juan Trail - I'm looking at you. Shuttle for point to point (and keep your groups small if it's a highly populated weekend). Shuttle for DH if it's not something people can ride up. NEVER startle or be a dick to other trail users.
     
    Fueledbyex8, Erik H, mike and 8 others like this.
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As a former Amazon Associate I continue to get screwed trying to stay qualified as an Amazon Affiliate. So I quit!


Want to donate to imtbtrails?