LCWP TnA Trail

Discussion in 'Trail Maintenance' started by knucklebuster, Feb 3, 2017.


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  1. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    I am horrified to think that the definition of a good trail is one you can ride up. The best trails for down are hard to walk up, and impossible to ride.

    This all comes back to the word "sustainable." I want a definition of exactly what that means - sustained for how long, by whom for what? Low gradient IMBA trails do not offer the appropriate challenge.
     
  2. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    That would be awesome. Yes, please do. Let me know time and place. Thanks Chris!
    There is a rule to attend. Cool heads MUST prevail.
    If at any moment someone is going to lose their cool, I will ask you to please go get a taco at Wahoos. :)
     
  3. StrandLeper

    StrandLeper Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Timothy M. Ryan
    Current Bike:
    SC Bronson 1x/Pivot 429 1x xtr
    Ha ha ha ha ha! @Mikie , I won't be there so don't worry. :)

    Good luck guys. I think that there are very specific questions that need to be answered.

    On a separate note, it is amazing that you are coming all of the way to Laguna to do this. I am humbled by your commitment.

    Be sure to try the new French Bakery on Forest. Moulin. AMAZING!
     
  4. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    Actually I was hoping you "would" be there, but that may come at a later date...
     
    MattB, DangerDirtyD and mtnbikej like this.
  5. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Fixed it and localized it for ya...
     
  6. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Wait, if Strand's out of town, and Mikie is coming all this way...

    Hmmm, I know where Strand lives so...

    PARTY AT STRAND"S

    Tim, could you leave the key under the mat?
     
    Faust29, MattB, Rumpled and 2 others like this.
  7. StrandLeper

    StrandLeper Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Timothy M. Ryan
    Current Bike:
    SC Bronson 1x/Pivot 429 1x xtr
    Just to be on the safe side, I will fire off a public records request re the decision making on this issue to OC Parks tomorrow. Having the actual documents won't hurt anything.
     
    Faust29, MattB, Mikie and 1 other person like this.
  8. StrandLeper

    StrandLeper Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Timothy M. Ryan
    Current Bike:
    SC Bronson 1x/Pivot 429 1x xtr
    The BBQ fridge is always stocked. Text me the preferred hot tub temp. I will
    Text u on where the pool cover switch is. Not. The ONE weekend I am out of town! I am bummed bcz I would have liked to host a dip, a schvitz and a drink after the ride. Next time!
     
  9. Just catching up. I read the blog, which makes this sound like the reroute was planned 2 years ago with no public comments asked for?
     
  10. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    Don't they have like 10 days to respond to a records request?
     
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  11. StrandLeper

    StrandLeper Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Timothy M. Ryan
    Current Bike:
    SC Bronson 1x/Pivot 429 1x xtr
    We won't have the records for the mtg but we will have them for the future.

    Edit: knowing that such a request is pending tends to help with forthrightness.
     
  12. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    CA
    Name:
    Chicken Nugget
    Current Bike:
    2018 Guerrilla Gravity SMASH
    The commons fights for sustainability! I'm getting all excited! I will try to participate as much as I can. @StrandLeper, I sometimes respond to attorney comments on CEQA and NEPA docs, but for relative peanuts and at a lower professional tier. I feel taken advantage of intellectually.

    Anyhow, you'd be surprised what a habitat restorationist or a paleontologist rationalize for a proponent. I expect there is a CEQA document evaluating a Resource Management Plan and/or Trail Restoration and Sustainability Plan prepared on behalf of OC Parks which would document their consultation with the CDFW, USFW, USACE, RWQCB, and/or SHPO and all the acronyms under the California environmental regulatory landscape. :thumbsup:.

    The CEQA document may have included a geotechnical report, among other tech docs, as an appendix and would have been available for public review and comment for between 20 and 45 days depending on the nature of the impacts evaluated. This document may be a decade old for all I know.

    Good points folks about sedimentary bedrock providing slope stability and insight into 20,000,000 year old Bivalvia and Gastropoda now lost in exchange for erosion of loosened sediments. :confused: At least the paleo ocean floor is sloughing off back into the ocean.

    To narrow the trail prism, install warning signage in areas of habitat restoration and plant cholla in strategic locations. May the commons push back!
     
    kioti, StrandLeper, mtnbikej and 6 others like this.
  13. littlewave

    littlewave Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Newport Beach
    Name:
    Brett
    Current Bike:
    GG Smash (Alu)
    I've got a meeting in LA Saturday otherwise I would be there. Going forward let me know when and how I can be of assistance.
     
    Mikie, DangerDirtyD and MattB like this.
  14. MattB

    MattB Member

    Name:
    Matt B
    If the timing doesn't conflict with my son's basketball game, I'll be there. Otherwise, I'll make myself available for any future conversations. I'll keep an eye out for the time/place.
     
    StrandLeper, Mikie and DangerDirtyD like this.
  15. I really really really did NOT need this battle in my life right now, but for all it's worth, I read all the trailmix posts and photos on facebook and have concluded whomever the dimwit granola nutcase it that is writing posts is a dimwit moron. This particular photo and description lit my fuse.



    upload_2017-2-6_23-7-44.png
     
  16. herzalot

    herzalot iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2020 Revel Rail,Yeti SB 130 LR
    With all due respect to our fellow lawyers, engineers and politicians, I have no intention of bringing charts and graphs, historical documents, geotechnical reports or anything else to a meeting with Hallie. If that's what you want to do, I'm out. I am not putting anyone on trial, nor am I going to try to play "gotcha" at this point in time, or throw down threats. There may be a need for others to do that in the immediate future, but that's not who I am nor what I do.

    I am going to sit down and have a conversation about what mt. bikers want, what we love and why the destruction of a huge section of hillside shocks our conscience and should not be a decision made in isolation by a few people who think they have a corner on sustainability and environmental impact. I will represent our fears that there are plans in the works to destroy all similar trails in the area, to flatten them out into two-way gentle bridle paths with a few "features" thrown in along the sides to keep us kids on our toys entertained.

    I will insist on seeing or hearing about the plans for future trail work. I will ask about the stockpile of rocks at the top of Meadows, and what the plan is for that. I will let her know that there is more at stake than a few guys and their expensive toys. There is an industry and there is a passionate lifestyle.
     
    OTHRider, DBMX119, HBkites and 16 others like this.
  17. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    Excellent approach, Chris
     
  18. Faust29

    Faust29 Moderator

    Location:
    irgendwo
    Name:
    B. Bunny
    Current Bike:
    I gots some bikes.
    I'm more in the Herz camp of calm discussion, but if anything got under my skin it was the "biblical rains" description on the Facebook page. I've seen 25 inches fall in 18 hours on my house. This latest event wasn't biblical... And to think that one can control, tame, and future proof against a biblical event is asinine.
     
    Redman, herzalot, StrandLeper and 3 others like this.
  19. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    CA
    Name:
    Chicken Nugget
    Current Bike:
    2018 Guerrilla Gravity SMASH
    I appreciate your tactfulness and maturity. Yea, even I know it when I see it. :)

    It's true public outcry has succeeded before under good faith effort. Unfortunately, and correct me if I'm wrong @StrandLeper, if the management plan under which these actions are implemented has been vetted through CEQA, sentiment has no basis for action. You'll need substantial evidence to require an alternative action to occur.
     
  20. MattB

    MattB Member

    Name:
    Matt B
    Well said.
     
  21. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    NW Arkansas
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Ibis DV9 / SC Hightower
    I am in complete alignment with this statement, and is exactly the approach I intend to present. I am not sure I would really want more than 3 people there to be honest with all of you. No one is going on trial, nor is the intent to prove righteousness through numbers.
    My vision is to appeal to common sense and community input and inclusion, offering trail advice as a representative of our aspect of the sport and trail perceptions. To offer a partnership to prevent further miscommunication on future projects.

    Lastly, and I offer this with sensitivity... I want to make sure that we represent a diplomatic presence. The days of unorganized individuals writing emails and letters insulting, lambasting, dropping F-Bombs, and idle threats are of days of old. We must present ourselves as well spoken, other people focused, sensitive to the subject with controlled tonal inflections. No one really listens to raging lunatics anymore. It's just not effective and only creates restraining orders.

    There is a time for documents and litigation, now is the time to feel out the potential for collaboration and developing a mutual goal.
     
    herzalot, MolarM, StrandLeper and 6 others like this.
  22. sir crashalot

    sir crashalot iMTB Rockstah

    Location:
    laguna beach
    Name:
    gary fishman
    Current Bike:
    2018 banshee rune
    well said, Mikie!
     
  23. Thank you!!!
     
  24. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD iMTB Hooligan

    Location:
    CA
    Name:
    Chicken Nugget
    Current Bike:
    2018 Guerrilla Gravity SMASH
    Wait, who's president?
     
    Oaken, herzalot, Mikie and 3 others like this.
  25. Andy

    Andy Well-Known Member

    Location:
    The OC, Calif
    Name:
    Andy
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Chameleon

    As I mentioned, I'll be available that day should you require.... As someone who TAVs next door at CCSP and regularly rides LCWP I'd be happy to contribute
     
  26. StrandLeper

    StrandLeper Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Timothy M. Ryan
    Current Bike:
    SC Bronson 1x/Pivot 429 1x xtr
    At this particular point in time @herzalot and @Mikie that is the perfect approach IMHO. I understand from many around town that Hallie will listen to the concerns of the MTB community.

    Notwithstanding the above, I want to understand how the decisions occurred that led to this result. Hallie told me that she will be responding to my specific concerns on that issue, one cannot ask for more than that. I look forward to a productive dialogue with Hallie on that, and seeing how the process unfolded at OC Parks. My reasons wanting specific details, and to see the documents are not to beat anyone over the head about TnA, that trail is gone, but to see from Orange County's perspective how the decisions that led to TnA being "gutted" happened. Experience tells me that MUCH is lost when discussing a process instead of reviewing the actual documents that evidence the process. That is my motivation.

    @DangerDirtyD I don't want to speculate about what approvals have or haven't been obtained (or what approvals are or are not necessary) but your point is very well taken- we need to understand the future plans for our trails sooner rather than later.

    Good luck guys and if you need to reach me @herzalot and @mtnbikej have my cell.
     
    herzalot, Mikie, Faust29 and 6 others like this.
  27. shawndoh

    shawndoh Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Lake Forest
    Name:
    shawn
    Current Bike:
    I ride all the bikes!
    Godspeed gentlmen.
    I was bummed when I first heard about the change as well. Much the same as you all, I don't like to the consistent trend toward less technical trails.
     
    Mikie, kioti, herzalot and 3 others like this.
  28. StrandLeper

    StrandLeper Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Timothy M. Ryan
    Current Bike:
    SC Bronson 1x/Pivot 429 1x xtr
    Back from a brief vacation. Yes, Tahoe was glorious. Yes, one of the days I did use the lifts. I have reached out to Hallie to see get a few available dates from her and will loop in folks as those dates come.
     
    kioti, herzalot, MattB and 2 others like this.
  29. StrandLeper

    StrandLeper Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Timothy M. Ryan
    Current Bike:
    SC Bronson 1x/Pivot 429 1x xtr
    Received documents today from Orange County, but for wrong trail (the new link from TOW to Meadows). It looks like the documents that I am looking for are at OC Parks and are going to take a bit longer to get. If anyone wants the documents that I received (regarding the TOW to Meadows change), or the documents that I eventually receive for the TnA change, just pm me your e-mail address.
     
    herzalot, Mikie and DangerDirtyD like this.
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As a former Amazon Associate I continue to get screwed trying to stay qualified as an Amazon Affiliate. So I quit!


Want to donate to imtbtrails?