IMBA eMTB access survey

Discussion in 'Trail Advocacy' started by Sasquatch9billion, Nov 14, 2017.

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  1. Redman

    Redman Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Cypress, Ca
    Name:
    Kevin
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Nomad CC 27.5
    Ahh Motul:thumbsup:
    No mixing for this kid. I live in a 4stroke world now.
     
  2. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD MTB Addict

    Location:
    La Verne, CA
    Name:
    Dennis (AKA Dio)
    Current Bike:
    2013 Trek Slash 9 (26er)
    I am witness to the most appropriate derail in iMTBtrails history.
     
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  3. jimbowho

    jimbowho Well-Known Member

    Location:
    acton
    Name:
    james jim jimmy
    Current Bike:
    12 GT sensor 29r
    Ahh Redman. I went 4-stroke for 15 years. I'm back on old Betsy just for the fun factor. Thanks for helping japflap a burnt out thread. to get back on subject. I'm buying a 95-Suzuki DRZ 350 (YES I AM AWARE OF WHAT I SAID) dual sport. That is so close to an E-bike as you can get. To make it mtn-bike relevant. When it gets wet I plan on going to the last ten feet of the Hillbilly Highway AKA (AT) in acton. Burn in another 1/2 mile or so going back and forth back and forth brake sliding and over gassing it. I don't know what is further down the trail but it is most likely doable. I can't walk good but I can ride so it's my contribution.

    To all you Rookies, this is how you hijack a thread.
     
  4. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut MTB Addict

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Custom XTR 29er

    No disrespect towards Coloradans... I posted that because IMBA is based in Colorado :)
     
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  5. Faust29

    Faust29 MTB Addict

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve Macko
    Current Bike:
    Chameleon SS and Highball
    When you finish with AT, can you head to Golden Eagle? @Mikie really likes it when the motos loosen up the dirt.
     
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  6. jimbowho

    jimbowho Well-Known Member

    Location:
    acton
    Name:
    james jim jimmy
    Current Bike:
    12 GT sensor 29r
    I think I better clarify. NOT burning in any existing trail. Just make a line in the sand further on from the end of A.T. this coming winter.
     
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  7. Faust29

    Faust29 MTB Addict

    Location:
    Rancho Santa Margarita
    Name:
    Steve Macko
    Current Bike:
    Chameleon SS and Highball
    I’m just messin’. I like the moto derail...
     
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  8. Redman

    Redman Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Cypress, Ca
    Name:
    Kevin
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Nomad CC 27.5
    @jimbowho sounds like great way to spend some time on your moto. Two strokes are definitely making a strong comeback. I'm considering buying a 125 just for the fun factor. But, I mainly only ride track and I don't need to be hucking myself over any jumps @ 70' plus. So, a little tiddler 125 should be a barrel of fun!
     
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  9. kioti

    kioti MTB Addict

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    I'm looking at something that runs on diesel. Narrow and slow with a lot of power. Plus a bucket and blade. Should be legal on N.F. single track with proper authorization..
     
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  10. Runs with Scissors

    Runs with Scissors MTB Addict

    Location:
    West Anaheim
    Name:
    Mark Whitaker
    Current Bike:
    2015 Giant XTC Advanced 1 29er
    When I rode a two-stroke moto-sickle, it was a 1974 Yamaha 175 Enduro. I had great times on that thing, and yes I took it where I probably should not have. But whatever. I paid the price by having to muscle it into a reverse direction since there wasn't room on the trail to use the engine as an assist. Motos are fun, and on appropriate trails/roads they can't be beat.

    And I went through 3 Honda Gold Wings...the Cadillac of motorcycles. Norwalk - Salt Lake City - Norwalk on one three day weekend. Talk about fun!!!

    But these days it's cheaper and more fun - and less damaging to the body - to just ride my bicycles. I really don't think I'll be getting another moto any time soon.
     
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  11. DangerDirtyD

    DangerDirtyD MTB Addict

    Location:
    La Verne, CA
    Name:
    Dennis (AKA Dio)
    Current Bike:
    2013 Trek Slash 9 (26er)
    When the Forest Service does not allow utility providers to create new roads or “improve” existing roads so that 6-axle line trucks may access project sites, we tree huggers suggest these:
    4C6EEBDF-B322-49D1-A712-4B4F0ED6B01A.jpeg
    Forest service is very receptive to the use of these on single track trails, especially during nesting bird season, when the alternative would be a helicopter and a couple of grunt ground men with 10’ spoon shovels.
     
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  12. jimbowho

    jimbowho Well-Known Member

    Location:
    acton
    Name:
    james jim jimmy
    Current Bike:
    12 GT sensor 29r
    That's what I thought until I rode my daughters CR and her boyfriends YZ (I'm the mechanic) played with the sag and took off, I had forgotten you need to keep them redlined to work correctly. Jeepers, fun factor is an understatement. Good luck with that.
     
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  13. skyungjae

    skyungjae Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    Name:
    Kyung Jae
    Current Bike:
    2015 Santa Cruz Bronson C
    I don't really see eMTB as much of a threat to trail access or strava times. The ones that will be allowed on the trail are pedalec only and don't pump out a whole lot of power. It'll make the casual once a month rider probably ride on par with the once a week rider. The only people that can really take advantage have to already be somewhat talented/fit riders to begin with. It's probably more cumbersome to the non-rider than a conventional bike.

    Having been down that path, the cons outweigh the pros for any e-bike. Range anxiety, heavy and cumbersome, quicker wear on components, etc... It's strange to me that IMBA has changed their stance on this at all unless some real riders have changed their views on eMTB. I highly doubt some casual once a month riders had any influence. I'm assuming it's the older MTB crowd that supports this the most... like Gary Fisher types. "Uphill flow!"
     
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  14. tick

    tick Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Tick
    Current Bike:
    Process 111
    Reading the IMBA statement, they are saying that they will neither advocate for or against ebikes. At first I thought it was just weaselly, but now I’ve decided I agree with being wishywashy and just keeping our issues low profile. We’re bound to lose, don’t force the industry’s hand. To Big Bike, imba will become dispensable, they can go start IEBA any time they want and we’ll be back to riding fireroads.

    And I didn’t see a single ebike at el Moro today.
     
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  15. bvader

    bvader Well-Known Member

    Location:
    HB
    Name:
    Stephen
    Saw one at Old Camp Today... Fit guy .... sigh... on the specialized BTW that pumps out 250W... substantial power.
     
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  16. herzalot

    herzalot MTB Addict

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2015 Intense Tracer 275c DVO
    Laguna Cyclery is sending lots of 'em out, and shop guys are riding them too. As mentioned earlier, many of the aging Rads are riding them, as are Hans, Brian, Richie and other notable locals. Not exclusively, of course, but frequently. It's over.

    One of the shop guys was talking about how much better he is on his real bike both up and down after riding the 50lb e-bike. Maybe the lure of "uphill flow" and quick access will give way to the ultimate thrill of riding agile equipment down the hill. Unfortunately, I am sure Elon Musk will have the weight down on the things in no time.
     
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  17. tick

    tick Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Tick
    Current Bike:
    Process 111
    Ebiking to Old camp isn’t such a big deal IMO, it’s not like you’re gonna spook a hore
    It’s not like we didn’t know the rads were a bunch of jerks with entitlement issues. It would be fitting if their final legacy was the death of the sport in SoCal. I’m sure their sponsors will be proud.
     
  18. bvader

    bvader Well-Known Member

    Location:
    HB
    Name:
    Stephen
    Seriously had to read that about 3 times.... till it sunk in .... horse... Guess I have been watching The Deuce too much.
     
  19. tick

    tick Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Orange
    Name:
    Tick
    Current Bike:
    Process 111
    Doh!
     
  20. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/MTB Addict

    Location:
    Lebec, California
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower
    Guys, embarrassed to ask but I don't fully speak O.C.
    What is a Rad? I'm assuming Hans is Hans Rey, Brian is Brian Lopes, who is Richie cuz I can't imagine you are talking about Rude? Have good guys gone bad?
    Help a mountain man out here... :oops:
     
  21. herzalot

    herzalot MTB Addict

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2015 Intense Tracer 275c DVO
    Sorry... Here we go:

    The RADS are a founding group of underground mountain bikers in Laguna who started their secret society in the late 80s - early 90s. They built a network of very challenging trails in and around Laguna, and had initiation and membership requirements. The group has maintained its Wednesday evening rides (and bonfires) for over 25 years. Yet, they are not the type of group rides where you can actually see a group of riders. Very hush hush and stealthy. They are all very talented and extremely fit riders and they are excellent at maintaining those select trails (until recently, when the numbers of people riding those trails has exploded thanks to STRAVA, YouTube and the new crop of amazing bikes).

    Hans is Hans Rey. Swiss transplant, Laguna resident and world famous trials and adventure mt. biker. He has a charity for bikes for kids in Africa. Brian is Brian Lopes, Laguna resident and perhaps the most decorated dirt bicyclist in the nation - bmx, enduro, DH and XC. He is fast, fit and talented.

    Richie is Riche Schley. He has a trail named after him in Whistler (Schleyer). He recently moved full-time to Laguna. He was one of the Godfathers of the Vancouver North Shore extreme mt. biking in the early 2000s along with Wade Simmons, Brett Tippie and a couple of others.

    Editorial: There is a love-hate relationship with the Rads. Mostly hate. Hikers, Sierra Clubbers and local environmentalists think they are outlaws who should be in prison. Other riders think the Rads are arrogant and self serving. Personally, I am impressed with how underground they are. Fight club rules are strong with them. I've seen a couple of RADS stickers on cars/trucks, but mostly they do not claim. Now that they are older, many are giving back. A couple of them are very involved in youth mt. biking (all on legal trails with trail stewardship and etiquette as a strong part of the curriculum). Many are industry insiders. And in the context of e-bikes, that's the scary part.
     
  22. Mikie

    Mikie Admin/MTB Addict

    Location:
    Lebec, California
    Name:
    Mikie Watson
    Current Bike:
    Santa Cruz Hightower
    That was an outstanding explanation! Thank you Sir!
     
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  23. dustyyoungblood

    dustyyoungblood Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Ladera Ranch
    Name:
    Dustan Baker
    Current Bike:
    Foes Mixer Trail
    Tom Mahoney Vs the RADS:
    http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jan/11/local/me-outthere11

    And those damn DH'ers are "Goons"
    http://www.ocregister.com/2013/12/1...ay-wilderness-in-aliso-and-wood-canyons-park/
     
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  24. herzalot

    herzalot MTB Addict

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2015 Intense Tracer 275c DVO
    2003! Well, they made it 14 more years and are still going strong. The problem now is volume of riders on the off-menu trails exacerbated by social media. Contrary to the article, most of the trails are not on ridgelines, but are typically buried into nooks and crannies, and until recently, not very evident. Yes Telonics and A-- Sc--- were pretty obvious, but the other 30 trails were pretty hard to spot. In the past 4 or 5 years, trails like W------a, K---------en, Re-- M-- and more are getting a lot of traffic, due to widely publishing the locations of the trails on STRAVA and posting videos that name the trails (and location) on YouTube/Vimeo. Maybe STR's tight policy of not mentioning any off-menu trail names was wise.

    Oh, and as for the DH Goons mentioned in the other article, Rads don't wear DH gear. Standard XC helmets are de rigeur. No full-face helmets and goggles or stormtrooper body armor. Maybe the occasional knee pads. And definitely no DH bikes. Until recently, they wouldn't even wear bright clothes or ride brightly-colored bikes.

    The article talks about "plenty of other places within an hour's drive" to get a DH fix. Not true. There are very few expert trails like the hidden, and now not-so-hidden gems of Laguna - even within a day's drive.

    I fear this may all be coming to a close soon. I am meeting with LCF at noon today to see what I can do to be part of the solution, without giving up being part of the problem!
     
  25. herzalot

    herzalot MTB Addict

    Location:
    Laguna Beach
    Name:
    Chris
    Current Bike:
    2015 Intense Tracer 275c DVO
    I was just at my LBS. Here's what was on the computer screen:

    e-DH Bike.JPG

    While waiting for my brakes to be bled, the Bulls (bicycles) reps come in and start talking about their e-mtbikes. Bulls were selected for the local police, and will likely be peddled in the store as well (see what I did there?). The discussion was centered on power output, not on whether or not e-mtbs should exist or should be on local trails. The LBS' lead mechanic did mention that e-mtb is a bit controversial around here. He added that he rides his "analog" bike better after riding e-mtbs. The shop owner was not present.

    More evidence that Pandora's box is open, the cat's out of the bag, that ship has sailed and you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.

    Now we need to focus our energies on trail etiquette for all. I am still convinced that riding in large groups on crowded multi-use trails is currently a bigger threat than e-mtb. Think about it. If I am waiting for an uphill rider, and there is a group of 25 of them, I will be waiting for 15-20 minutes before I have a clear trail again. If I am waiting for one e-mtb, well, I won't, because I won't give him the right of way.

    I think donning full stormtrooper gear and riding DH bikes down two-way trails is also a bigger threat from a hiker's perspective. Add e-bikes into the mix, and we may hit the tipping point, the straw that broke the camel's back, too many cooks spoiling the broth and even all the king's horses and all the king's men won't be able to... blah blah blah.
     
  26. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut MTB Addict

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Custom XTR 29er
    I can only hope for the day that the rangers go out on a Saturday and do what the Marines did in Pendleton: set up a road block at the bottom of a trail, snag all the e-bikes that come down it, and impound them until the bikers pay a hefty fine.

    The word gets out REAL quick when that happens! Problem solved!
     
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  27. kioti

    kioti MTB Addict

    Name:
    Jim Jennings
    Is there actual signage in place, like the 'no bike with a plug' icon? Having a 'no bikes with motors' sign is apparently too vague for E-stimulated riders..
     
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  28. Sasquatch9billion

    Sasquatch9billion Well-Known Member

    Name:
    trinidad j. mendez
    This is why I love @Mikie , He don't give a fux about mtn celebs. Which, if we want to get into the real gritty-gritty/existential side of it; Is a Mtn. bike celeb REALLY a celeb????
    Also, the rads are old and lame, just as they were when I was a kid growing-up with El Moro as my local trails.
     
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  29. skyungjae

    skyungjae Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Fullerton, CA
    Name:
    Kyung Jae
    Current Bike:
    2015 Santa Cruz Bronson C
    OIgeboYi_400x400.jpg
     
  30. BonsaiNut

    BonsaiNut MTB Addict

    Location:
    Laguna Hills
    Name:
    Greg P
    Current Bike:
    Custom XTR 29er
    I haven't seen anything that specific (calling out e-bikes), but I HAVE seen the no motorized bikes signs.

    Then again I have also seen the no-skate-boarders signs on the Aliso Creek Trail... but that didn't stop a skateboarder from using it and tackling me off my bike one fine day :) I have yet to ride a downhill trail that scares me as much as a skateboarder with ear-buds in his ears :)

    And the no dirt-bikes signs at the top of the Motorway... etc, etc. Signs don't mean much in the OC. Money talks though.
     
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